The Bush administration is responsible for 9/11
The time has come for Democrats and the American people to take a hard look at the events of 9/11 instead of relegating the zillion unanswered question on these events to the black box of "conspiracy theories". Nothing will improve in the American political system as long as a crime such as 9/11 will not been fully exposed and those responsible for it brought to the dock.
Facts:
1. There exists not a shred of evidence - and I mean NO SHRED OF EVIDENCE - proving that any of the 19 alleged Muslims named by the FBI had boarded the aircraft which they allegedly hijacked thereafter: Their names do not appear on passenger lists; no one saw them board the aircraft; their bodily remains have not been identified at the crash sites.
2. At least 10 independent indices suggest that the World Trade Center, buildings 1, 2 and 7 were demolished by explosives. No one has ever claimed that Muslims could access the buildings in order to place explosives. So the only explanation is an "inside job".
3. Not even one person, including high-ranking Al Qaeda members in US custody, has been charged by US judicial authorities, let alone convicted for planning, preparing, facilitating or committing the mass murder of 9/11.
4. The US administration prevented a criminal investigation of the 9/11 mass murder and attempted to prevent a public inquiry into this mass murder.
The above facts should raise questions among every decent American. I urge those who are now considering to impeach Bush to consider not only him but Dick Cheney and other administration members who colluded in covering up the crime of 9/11 and who did possibly robably participate in it.
Elias Davidsson
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www.VelvetRevolution.us
no doubt the PNAC cabal was behind what took place Sept 11, 2001
the lack of NORAD response, the carting off and destruction of evidence, the F.A.A. destroying tapes of interviews of ATC specialists who were on the scopes that day, Rudy Guiliani's hurry to ship all the steel to China, where no forensic examination could be done on it, etc..
anthrax mailed only to democrats who opposed the Patriot Act, came from Ft. Detrick, MD. it was weaponized anthrax, so it came from our own labs, not some chemistry set somewhere. (republicans did this!)
and the fact that the republican leadership was all sequestered safely underground that day, while the democrats were excluded, means that the republicans were in on what took place every inch of the way, right to the planning phase of moving their own murderers underground to protect them from what happened.
NORAD never made it to the intercepts as their pilots would have seen the empty cockpits and not one face in any airplane window (remotely piloted aircraft used, at least in '2' of the cases).
WTC-7 collapse without being hit. implosion style collapse of both WTC towers in a way that doesn't make any sense when it's analyzed by physicists and scientists. demolition charges placed in those buildings by Bush family security company. Silverstein involved because he tried to collect on the WTC-7 claim to much higher numbers than he was paid, so he was in on the plot, as well. The 'put' options for stocks that day absolutely insist the government was involved in it, and some tried to profit from it.
way too much evidence here about republican PNAC complicity and treason to overlook it. treason to the level of needing capital punishment for all involved. every last one of them involved in it.
Former F.B.I. Director Louis Freeh wants an investigation, and so do the rest of us. We want prosecution for the acts of TREASON our own government's members (predominantly republican PNAC members) committed that day!
Empty Aircraft
NORAD never made it to the intercepts as their pilots would have seen the empty cockpits and not one face in any airplane window (remotely piloted aircraft used, at least in '2' of the cases).
This statment really should make people take notice of a nonbefore mentioned fact,"If there were passengers aboard those aircraft where are their families? Why are they not making their own public outcry against this therory?" I know if one of my love ones was on board any of those aircrafts and was killed and someone dare to try to say that they weren't on the airplane I would be going blallistic and I would be going public against those who dare to make that claim. If there were people on board the airplane why is there no outcry from their families?
just like the families of the 'unreported' war dead??
you need to get real. the death toll in Iraq is way above the 2,900 or so the government claims, but military experts inside the Pentagon have divulged those numbers are 'bogus' and not 'real', and your theory about the families of those people speaking out holds no water when you realize that allegedly 6,500 american soldiers have now died in Iraq, and those families are so very silent. Or is it that nobody will tell their story? those pilots in NORAD were told not to use 'full military power' or 'afterburners' and this prevented them from ever catching a single airplane that day. Wanna tell me about WTC-7 now that you're an expert about the families who don't complain?
Passengers not on board any of the ailiners on 911
There was a telephone conversation aboard one of the aircraft by a lady TV correspondent talking to her husband and relating the plane had been highjacked. If there were no passengers on any of the airplanes? How can this phone call be explaned? I'm sorry, I can't remember her name. But this was on a news report shortly after the tragic event
Lot of unanswered
questions about 9/11 for sure, and the notion that our own Government could be involved is so outrageous and unbelievable that it could be the perfect cover. Face it, the evidence would have to be overwhelming for people who have the power to do something about it to even consider openly discussing Government doing something like that, much less actually making an accusation.
Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official...
~Theodore Roosevelt~
Just watch the videos
James Verthein
La Crescent, MN
I think that these people who are under suspision should not be allowed to leave the country and that charges should be brought immediately. These guys from the President on down have killed people, stolen money, and destroyed this country with cover ups and are getting away with it. Do you remember the expression of President Bush when he was informed that the WTC's we hit be jets? To me he looked relieved, and didn't bat an eye or show any remorse at all.
Do you seriously believe
Do you seriously believe this crap?You are spending far too much time on the computer with this conspiracy theory
1. There exists not a shred of evidence - and I mean NO SHRED OF EVIDENCE - proving that any of the 19 alleged Muslims named by the FBI had boarded the aircraft which they allegedly hijacked thereafter: Their names do not appear on passenger lists; no one saw them board the aircraft; their bodily remains have not been identified at the crash sites.
WHAT ABOUT THE TAPES SHOWING THEM BOARD IN MASSOFTWOSHITS....MORON
2.At least 10 independent indices suggest that the World Trade Center, buildings 1, 2 and 7 were demolished by explosives. No one has ever claimed that Muslims could access the buildings in order to place explosives. So the only explanation is an "inside job".
GLASS BLOWING OUT OF A BUILDING THAT IS COLLAPSING IS NO EXPLOSION...AGAIN MORON.....LIBERAL FREAKING MORON..... THAT IS YOU
our own government was indeed involved in this murdering
and they'll be tried, and hanged or shot by firing squad, for their complicity in the largest crime against America since republican's evolved from common bird shit.
and Richie, go away. you're the moron on here, dickhead!!!!!
see no evil hear no evil speak no evil moron
NO doubt you are a brown nosing republican, and a bush supporter, the WTC buildings were wired with explosions, MORON, I have over 30 years experiece in demolitons, and those buildings were wired. I don't have to see or examine rubble or forensics of the concrete,steel,and carnage of human flesh that our infamous president and repulbican party is responsible for. The truth hurts, it's bitter, but if you support bush, then you are endorsing everything he has done, and approve of his war crimes. IF that makes the person you have been bad mouthing here a Moron, then that makes him a better and smarter person than you. A republican is the only thing a know that is worse than a moron. Do you know the difference between a republican and a communist? Answer: They are just spelled differently, if you don't believe me, look up the definition of a republican, and in it's defining you will find communist.
franklloydrichardson
leland,nc
1. There exists not a shred
1. There exists not a shred of evidence - and I mean NO SHRED OF EVIDENCE - proving that any of the 19 alleged Muslims named by the FBI had boarded the aircraft which they allegedly hijacked thereafter: Their names do not appear on passenger lists; no one saw them board the aircraft...
This is entirely untrue. I don't know from where you have gotten your so-called "facts," but after the attacks, the FBI were actually surprised by how easily they were able to track the activities of all of the hijackers, right up until they boarded the planes. Not one of them used an alias -- none attempted to hide their identities, and their names appeared on all flight records, credit card records from their purchases of the tickets, hotel records and credit card records from the hotels they stayed in in the area up until they boarded their flights. There are even recordings of some of their voices -- without knowing the exact details at the moment (i.e., which flight, which hijacker) I DO know that after they had gained control of the cockpit on one of the flights, one of the hijackers accidentally pressed the wrong button when he meant to talk to the passengers; he, instead, pressed the button that caused his message to be transmitted to the air-traffic controllers. This is when they first becamse alerted that something was wrong, they distinctly heard what the hijacker meant to tell the passengers, something along the lines of ordering them to cooperate and nobody would get hurt. As somebody else also mentioned, above, there are security tapes from some of the airports showing some of the hijackers boarding the planes.
2. At least 10 independent indices suggest that the World Trade Center, buildings 1, 2 and 7 were demolished by explosives. No one has ever claimed that Muslims could access the buildings in order to place explosives. So the only explanation is an "inside job".
All of the experts I have heard from or read of agree on exactly how the towers collapsed. When the planes created the large holes in the structures, those areas were no longer able to support the weight of the towers above that point. The weight was then transferred and it was too much for the towers to bear. This is why the second tower hit actually collapsed first -- because the plane hit the tower lower on the building, so the weight above that point was greater than on the first tower hit, causing the collapse.
3. Not even one person, including high-ranking Al Qaeda members in US custody, has been charged by US judicial authorities, let alone convicted for planning, preparing, facilitating or committing the mass murder of 9/11.
This is also entirely false. There have been trials AND convictions in relation to the attacks.
4. The US administration prevented a criminal investigation of the 9/11 mass murder and attempted to prevent a public inquiry into this mass murder.
How can you claim that this administration "prevented" a criminal investigation? The FBI investigated extensively, and it was their efforts that led to convictions in relation to the attacks. I DO agree that they attempted to prevent a public inquiry, but they eventually relented and the 9/11 Commission took place.
Allow me to approach your claims from a different angle. The notion that our government, even if they DID want to do what you are suggesting, would be able to carry it out without getting caught is entirely absurd. How many people would have to be in on it? Think about what you are saying... it would need to involve the cooperation of so many people who were WILLING TO CARRY OUT SUCH AN ATTACK, and then keep it entirely hush-hush afterwards. What would be THEIR motives? I mean, even if you can explain the motives of the top officials in this administration, what would be the motives of those willing to help them carry it out? HOW could they cover their tracks so extremely well so as not to be discovered? Or do you think THE ENTIRE FBI was in on it too, with not ONE SINGLE PERSON having a conscience and deciding to come forward with the truth? You'd think that at least one of them would decide they could no longer live with the guilt and leave the entire story in a suicide note.
There's an old saying -- three people can keep a secret, if two are dead. This is more true than most people realize. Somebody always cracks, or tells somebody else, or does SOMETHING to reveal the truth. What your suggesting just isn't possible. Period. Not to mention the "facts" you've presented are false.
there is no way on earth this could happen without govt. help
no NORAD response, Bldg 7 collapsing without having been hit, Bush family connections to security contracts for the WTC, removal of bomb sniffing dogs from the building before the attack (helped not detect the demolition charges in these buildings) and lastly, the F.B.I. never having indicted nor charged a single saudi, nor Bin Laden himself, for the attacks.
get real, you can believe what you want to believe, but you better go read Operation Northwoods sometime, then tell me that our very own government isn't capable of this.
not only is it capable of it, it had a blueprint in the PNAC manifesto, demanding it.
and this is the excuse used by the Bush murderer to destroy our civil liberties and shred the Constitution. Exactly as Hitler did with his Enabling Act.
you need to pull your head out of your ass, lady. truly you do!
I can't help but notice that
I can't help but notice that you didn't even comment on the facts I've provided, which dispute almost every single "fact" emess provided in the original post.
"no NORAD response..."
Yes, there WAS a NORAD response. As soon as air traffic controllers learned that American Airlines Flight 11 had been hijacked (the first plane hijacked and the first one crashed into the North Tower of the WTC,) they notified FAA Headquarters. This was after they heard the transmissions I mentioned in my earlier post. Two F-15 fighter jets were scrambled, but the transponder on Flight 11 had been turned off, so the pilots didn't even know which way to go. Their commanders were waiting for a 'blip' on the radar screen in order to give instructions, but that blip never appeared and the plane was then crashed into the North Tower. NINE MINUTES had elapsed from the time they had been given any notice and the time the plane crashed into the tower. However, for quite some time, they didn't know that particular plane had crashed and they were still trying to locate it.
The flight attendants provided details, by phone, about what was happening aboard the plane. They reported they had been hijacked, and that 3 people had been killed. One of them was still on the phone right up until the plane crashed, saying, ".. we're too low... we're flying way too low."
Was this all staged? Were the women on the phone "in on it?" Why?
From the second plane hijacked, United Airlines Flight 75 (flown into the South Tower), three passengers phoned their families and a flight attendant called the United Airlines office. Were these phone calls also staged? Because the people on the ground SPOKE WITH FAMILY MEMBERS ON THE PLANE. Were they in on it? Why? What happened to them?
"Bldg 7 collapsing without having been hit..."
Wrong. Tower 7 collapsed after being heavily damaged by debris when the other 2 towers collapsed. So, essentially, it was "hit" -- by falling debris. Quite a few other buildings in the vicinity were also destroyed or heavily damaged.
"Bush family connections to security contracts for the WTCl.."
So what are you saying? That, because of this, the "Bush Family" was able to enter the buildings and lay explosives? Of course not, that's silly, right? They had to have other people to do that for them. Why would these other people do it? Why would they help cover it up? What was THEIR motive for helping "the Bush Family" cover-up this horrible attack against America? Why would these people be willing, themselves, to carry out such an attack against their own country?
There were many, many people providing 24/7 security to the WTC, not to mention that there were other people there, working, at all hours of the day. Either they all thought absolutely nothing of a team of people in there, LAYING DEMOLITION EXPLOSIVES, or they were all told, "Shhhh... don't tell anybody" and they, for absolutely no reason I can imagine, obeyed. Either scenario is entirely absurd. It would take MANY, MANY people to lay these explosives... because, otherwise, if they only trusted a few people to do it, it would take a VERY LONG TIME. All of these people would have to have been willing to do this, and the "Bush Family" would had to have KNOWN FOR A FACT that they could trust every single one of them to NEVER TELL ANYBODY what they had done. That's just way too many people to trust with such a plot. Of course, they could've had them all killed. But then their families might draw attention... family members may have been told what was going on. They'd have to have their families killed, too. But then, they might have told a friend or a co-worker. Yes, they'd have to kill all of them too... just to be sure. See what I'm getting at, here?
"removal of bomb sniffing dogs from the building before the attack (helped not detect the demolition charges in these buildings).. "
Again, expanding on what I said above, how were these demolition charges laid in two very busy buildings (ok, three buildings, since you're suggesting that Tower 7 was also purposely demolished by explosives) that had people going in and out at all hours of the day, had security guards in there 24/7 -- were they invisible demolition charges, laid by invisible fairies?
"the F.B.I. never having indicted nor charged a single saudi, nor Bin Laden himself, for the attacks."
Let's talk a little about how al Qaeda works. You see, they know all of the things I've been talking about, right down to "three people can keep a secret, if two are dead." It is a known fact that when a terrorist attack is carried out, they keep the number of people who know about the attack to a minimum. This cuts down on the chances of somebody getting caught, something being overheard, it prevents A MULTITUDE of things that COULD go wrong from GOING WRONG beforehand and thwarting the attack. Once their "soldiers" receive their orders, they are sent out to begin all of the steps to carry it out and they are instructed to not talk with anybody outside of the cell, unless absolutely necessary. They only speak amongst themselves. So, what this boils down to are the only ones who know about the attack are the "masterminds," a few people at the top, and the ones who are chosen to carry it out.
Their reasons for why they operate this way are the EXACT SAME REASONS for why our government could NEVER do what you are suggesting they have done, without getting caught or having the attack thwarted. You're talking about them having to have hundreds of people in on it, and knowing from the time they thought of it until the time they carried it out, not A SINGLE PERSON WOULD RUIN THEIR PLAN. Not only that, but they had to know EXACTLY HOW TO COVER EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEIR TRACKS so as not to be caught afterwards.
you are sincerely delusional and stupid, pentagon psy ops stooge
virtually nothing you wrote holds an ounce of water. you never mention that the interceptors were 'forbidden' from using 'full military power' or 'afterburners' to lay idiots. also, there are op orders that provide for ATC coordination to vector interceptors to the offending aircraft, which you fail to mention. also, your assertion that WTC 7 was 'severely damaged' by debris, is flat 'bullshit', so now you've exposed yourself as a pentagon asshole putting out bullshit propaganda, you have to hang up your headset and turn off your pentagon pc and accept the fact that far too much info is out there that is 'truth' and you cannot debunk or stop it.
last but not least, it's pretty clear this was carried out by a 'shadow government' within our own government, as the anthrax that went only to 'democrats who opposed the patriot act' were the only ones who were sent the 'militarized' anthrax from Ft. Detrick, and lastly, every single republican was safely sequestered underground while this went on, almost 'on cue' from a central command post, leaving the democrats on the surface to fend for themselves.
you put out a whole lot of bullshit, and there is a whole lot of information that shows that you're a goddamned liar.
last point: flight data recorders not found. this is an 'impossibility' for this to occur. those crash protected memory modules are nearly impervious to the crash forces and fire that would ensue, and they would have not only been found, they would have survived with enough data to show exactly what happened on the aircraft.
go pump your pentagon bullshit at people who have republican I.Q.'s!
I know the truth, and the American people will soon know, and when they do, they're going to absolutely demand the hanging of the sons of bitches who participated in the events that not just happened that day, but the criminal dissemination of military Ft. Detrick anthrax that was weaponized and not produced in some guy's basement. Far too many indicators that this was indeed an 'inside job' darling pentagon bitch.
lastly, interceptor pilots are trained to 'sacrifice' their lives, if necessary, to protect human life on the ground, at all costs. this means if they have to sacrifice their own lives and their aircraft, so be it, they do it. they were never allowed to us afterburners, and there is a person who worked in CENTCOM that can attest to the de-facto 'stand down' order to NORAD that day.
and someday lady, I hope you are found, and then 'tried' for being an accomplice to 'treason' for putting out information that continues the
cover up and the further destruction of our Constitution, even if you are putting out this bullshit because you have orders from above your pay grade. it's still treason to assist in the deception!
Everything I have stated are
Everything I have stated are facts. Everything I have stated also disputes almost every single "fact" you and others have presented. Do you mind if I ask you where you have gotten YOUR information? Because the information I have provided is the result of extensive investigations and interviews of many, many people who were actually there.
"virtually nothing you wrote holds an ounce of water."
Why? Because you say so?
"you never mention that the interceptors were 'forbidden' from using 'full military power' or 'afterburners' to lay idiots."
Are you talking about the two F-15 fighter jets that were scrambled? They were never "forbidden" from doing anything. The order to shoot down the hijacked planes would've had to have come from the President himself, and it IS true that he never gave that order. But here are the facts: American Airlines Flight 11 was hijacked at 8:14 a.m.; it was crashed into the North Tower at 8:46. Thirty-two minutes had elapsed. During that time, air traffic controllers heard the hijackers transmitting messages from the plane; they contacted the FAA, which evaluated the information and contacted NORAD. By the time the commander at NORAD received the information and made the decision to scramble fighter jets, it was only nine minutes before the crash. Since the transponder was turned off on the plane, they couldn't locate it on radar.
On to United Airlines Flight 175: Air traffic controllers got the first indication that something was wrong with the flight when it nearly collided with another plane in the air, flying within 200 feet of a Delta flight. By 8:52, they had determined it, too, had definitely been hijacked. (Note: this was 6 minutes after AA #11 had crashed into the North Tower.) At 9:03, UA #175 crashed into the South Tower at the WTC. Exactly 11 minutes had elapsed. NORAD was still trying to locate AA #11 because they didn't even yet know IT had been crashed into the WTC.
These are the facts of what happened that day. Yes, as I said, NORAD never received any order to shoot down either plane because that order would have had to have come from the President himself. As we all know, he was going about his day, reading a book with children and being basically useless even AFTER he found out we were under attack.
"also, your assertion that WTC 7 was 'severely damaged' by debris, is flat 'bullshit', so now you've exposed yourself as a pentagon asshole putting out bullshit propaganda... "
LOL I have NO idea how my mention of the former proves the latter, and it's obvious YOU simply want to lable me as somebody working for the pentagon so you can dismiss what I've said. I can assure you, I am just a regular ol' American citizen who happens to know the FACTS of what happened that day. There are many, many people just like me.
I have seen footage of the damage Tower 7 received after the North and South Towers had both collapsed. Firefighters were desperately trying to put out the fires in Tower 7, but eventually received instructions to give it up, it was a lost cause. In case you didn't know, there were many, many cameras rolling that day. Almost every single minute of what happened was caught on tape. Many documentaries have been put together with this footage.
Everything I've stated can be verified. Everything YOU'VE stated seems to come from either your own little closed mind, or they are things you've been told by others who desperately want you to believe something that just doesn't hold an ounce of water.
I WILL agree that the actions of our President, that day and in the days following, statements he made, are just way too strange to make any sense. The FACT that he sat there and didn't respond in any way when he was told our country was under attack leaves me puzzled. He asked no questions (such as "Do we know WHO is attacking us?" You'd think THAT would be the first question asked by the President of the United States. He didn't even ask THAT.) Then, in the days following the attacks, when he was asked about what went through his mind that day -- let me just begin by stating I'm pretty sure everybody in this country remembers exactly where they were and how they felt and what went through their minds when they learned of what was happening. But when the President was asked, he gave an answer that doesn't make sense.
He stated something along the lines of (and I don't have the exact quote, but I definitely remember pretty much what he said): "When I arrived at the school, I remember there was a TV there, my men had brought a TV in, and I saw that first plane crash into the tower, and I thought to myself, man, that's one bad pilot."
Now, here are the actual facts of what happened. Bush was contacted, in his motorcade while on route to the school, and told about the first plane that had crashed into the World Trade Center. Others in other cars in the motorcade were told. When they arrived at the school, people from other cars rushed to his car but were told he already knew; that he, too, had received a call. He was taken into the school, pulled aside and had a few words with somebody (can't remember exactly who) and then he was taken right into the classroom. There was never any TV available for HIM to have seen. It was AFTER he was taken into the classroom that some secret service men ASKED that a TV be brought to THEM so they could turn on the news.
Not only that, but the footage they were showing, THAT DAY, was only the live footage of the SECOND plane hitting the South Tower. There WAS live footage of the first plane hitting the North Tower, but it didn't make it to the news networks until the NEXT DAY. So #1: President Bush never SAW a TV before entering the classroom; #2 even if he had, he couldn't have seen footage that wasn't yet airing. So his reaction COULDN'T have been "That's one bad pilot." If he had seen any footage at all, it would have HAD to have been of the second plane hitting, and at that point it was entirely obvious that it wasn't a case of a "really bad pilot," it was a deliberate and horrific attack. So WHY did our President MAKE UP A STORY about his reactions that day? As I said, everybody remembers the moment they learned of what happened, what they thought and how they felt. Why was it necessary for our President to HIDE what his actual thoughts were, and instead make up a story about it? A story that, to use your words again, doesn't hold "an ounce of water"?
I'm sorry, but I KNOW our government wasn't behind the attacks, BECAUSE of all of the facts I have stated. The planes WERE hijacked by terrorists, they WERE used to attack us. But what I WILL concede is that, because of the inaction of our President that day, and because of the odd story he made up, there IS something fishy going on. I WILL concede that it IS possible that our President wanted to ALLOW the attacks to be carried out, without any interference.
you have no clue what the fuck you are talking about
have you ever operated an aircraft in the positive controlled airspace (PCA) or had any exposure to air traffic control?
I think you are blowing a whole lot of smoke with no clue what the fuck you are saying. I have flown in the PCA, and have extensive knowledge of how the F.A.A. does business, as well as how NORAD does business. I have over 30 years of commercial flight experience, and intensive experience with the air traffic control system and how it works, and I absolutely refute the bullshit and misinformation you put out here because you have not one iota of a clue what you are saying.
let's get something clear here. ATC doesn't need your goddamned transponder to track your airplane. It's a nice thing to get the data block, and see a track header as well as flight level and speed data, but they can use secondary radar to track any airplane in the national airspace. The FPS-116 and ASR-64 radar networks, as well as other ATC radar, have virtually every single inch of airspace above FL-180 in constant surveillance, with the exception of radar maintenance windows and outages. your assertion that ATC didn't know where these planes were after the transponders (primary beacon radar) had been turned off, is both absurd and unfounded.
you also fail to realize that the pilots were indeed forbidden from using 'full military power' and the 'excuse' for that later was to be that they couldn't assure that tankers could be scrambled in time to fuel them at the end of their fuel endurance. this later was proven to be absolute bullshit.
next on my list, is that the pentagon had intentionally 'moved' many interceptor squadrons into positions far from the eastern seabord, and made the intercept times so lengthy that it also made using FULL MILITARY POWER an absolute necessity. not one of these interceptors went to afterburners that day, and that is a fact. it's an absurd fact.
lastly, ANY DEVIATION FROM YOUR ASSIGNED ALTITUDE AND FLIGHT PLAN immediately gets the TRACON supervisor on the horn to NORAD, and I mean, they don't even have the luxury of debating whether they should make the call, but they have only one option. Get on the line and tell NORAD there is a problem in progress. your assertion that our entire F.A.A. enroute system 'was incompetent' on Sept 11, 2001, is not valid. Those people on those scopes in the TRACONS are absolutely professionals and not garden variety fuckers from the street. They know when ANY AIRPLANE DEVIATES THAT GROSSLY FROM THEIR ASSIGNED ALTITUDE AND FLIGHT PLAN THAT THERE IS SOMETHING GOING ON, and they would have told NORAD about it IMMEDIATELY.
so, don't pump this "my government didn't do it" bullshit at us. You have not a clue what the fuck you are talking about, you have no idea how the air traffic control system or the federal aviation regulations work, and hence you are 'disqualified' from stating anything on this forum about what ATC did or didn't do.
you're also talking to a military veteran pilot here. I do know what the fuck I am talking about, and I do know that the cascade malfunction you propose happened on that day is not a possibility, never has been one, and never will have been one, without specific orders not to take action.
you've just been trumped by 30 plus years of flight experience at high altitudes in heavy airplanes, and you now are both relegated to go find something else to do, but you need to go pick up the F.A.A. regulations, and go to 911truth.org and look at the intensive timeline of what took place that day that exists.
our government was indeed involved. and that is treason, goddamned you!!!!!
you know not what the fuck you are talking about, dearest lady!
let's get off this adversarial page for a moment and let me explain to you what takes place in a cockpit of an airliner when something goes so very 'wrong' in-flight, that the pilot cannot talk to ATC on the assigned frequency.
first, you, the lay-person, non pilot, have no clue what procedures and regulations exist for exactly this contingency. though I have not often agreed with the absolute verbiage in some of the regulations and procedures, over time, I have come to view them as, for the most part, very 'logical' in that they do indeed try to make the ATC system and enroute air traffic control issues in the PCA, much more 'safe' due to there not being too very many holes in what is supposed to happen in 'emergencies' aloft. are there instances not covered by procedures and regulations? you bet. but for the most part, the F.A.A. regulations are so very comprehensive and thorough, time tested and proven, that with minor exceptions, the assumption that so many 'holes' in them existed on Sept 11, 2001, is absolutely 'goofy' from a pilot, military, and engineering point of view. It couldn't happen unless everyone had brain freeze for several minutes and got catatonic and stupid simultaneously. not likely.
I also want to tell you for the record that my military pilot experience in jamming aircraft also mandated that I have intensive knowledge of radar and IFF (transponders) and radio propagation, theory, countermeasures, effective ranges versus altitudes, shortcomings of radio and radar, and lastly, how to utilize the system when some of these things are not functioning, either onboard my aircraft, or on the ground. Clearly, when something quits working, you don't just pull over to a cloud somewhere and have maintenance beam themselves up to fix it. You must both know the procedures, and you must also know the 'plan b' alternatives that exist so that you don't compromise your life, your passenger's lives, or the lives of un-knowing and hitherto unaware people on the ground you just may drop in on if you don't do your job upstairs. nobody is operating any airplane in the PCA without knowing what these procedures are. you drill for it in simulators. you are queried about it by check pilots. you must know what the hell is going on to fly up there, believe it or not!
so, you're not talking to the average bear with no idea what the fuck the procedures are, what is supposed to take place, or what is in place to ensure that things happen in a specific sequence and order. this stuff has been drilled and drilled and re-drilled in countless ORE's (operational readiness exercises) and thousands of hours of high altitude cockpit time, with 'real' emergencies interspersed in there. I'm not pulling crap out of my un-knowing, totally oblivious ass like you are. I do indeed know what the fuck I am talking about. I do not buy the 'everything broke down all at once' theory you are putting forth in your bullshit. it's not possible. statistically, practically, feasibly, rationally.
when an aircrew has an 'inflight' emergency whereupon they cannot convey that to ATC via the radio, for whatever the reason, one of the two cockpit crew then will use the 'transponder' to tell ATC what is going on, with a 'beacon code' for a specific type of emergency aloft.
For any 'unspecified' emergency, you squawk or dial up on the transponder 'a specific emergency cod' (4096 codes possible on the box) and when the enhanced data block on the controller's radar screen starts to flash and the audio alert starts to go off in his or her headset, they know something is going on and you have an inflight emergency. At this moment in time, several controllers in more than one TRACON probably will see your emergency declaration, via your transponder, if you used it.
in the event that the transponder is turned off or not received by ATC, they nonetheless can still track you in that airplane, with only a few exceptions. those being, you are not flying in heavy precipitation (storm) and are not at low altitude below the radar's coverage cone. secondarily, other discrete beacon codes exist that you can squawk that inform ATC of the precise nature of the emergency beyond the initial '7700' notification you may or may not have time to dial in as you are working to keep your plane aloft and your passengers safe and comfortable. I won't get into those here because, although not classified, they
need not be disseminated to the general public.
needless to say, the way you handle your airplane tells ATC what is going on, as well. if you have a communications malfunction, as in your radio equipment is not working, you maneuver your airplane in a specific pattern, and utilize the transponder, if still working, to alert them of the fact you have no radio (voice) capability. you do not have to use a transponder to tell ATC everything, the controller will be looking at your skin paint (non radar beacon echo) and watching what that does, trying to figure out what is going on from that. He or she may not know your altitude anymore, or your precise speed, but they can see your flight direction and flight geometry to see if you are telling them you have lost your radios. If they get none of that, your transponder is off, and you are maneuvering radically, though they do not automatically count this as a hijacking, they do in-fact know you have lost control of your aircraft, and then they begin to alert nearby aircraft and their crews, if in visual flight conditions, to the fact they have a plane in their vicinity that could violate their airspace, or be a possible collision hazard, and to look for them, if possible, or be on the lookout for them. At the same time, this controller is talking to the TRACON supervisor, who can instantaneously be at that radar position, or switch to that picture, and 'share' that radar controller's video, and communications with him or her. This happens as a pre-drilled procedural operation, not some "oh, I guess I better go tell my boss" idea on the part of the controller. The ATC system doesn't work 'ad hoc' without procedures. Lots of things exist, procedurally, to make sure nobody gets caught with their pants down. This is precisely why I don't and will not buy the argument that this shit went on for so many minutes with pandemonium happening on the ground. The system isn't built or structured that way, the people who work in it are not your average 'village idiots', not to be able to vouch for every single controller or pilot, but most are not, and lastly, anyone who operates an airplane or a radar console knows 'exactly' what the fuck they're supposed to do in specific instances. There could never have been this 'everyone malfunctioned together and didn't take the correct action' bullshit without direct interference or someone promulgating interference in some fashion beforehand. To put out in your writings things you have no clue about, is truly a disservice to people who operate airplanes and the controllers who help them do that, and therefore I object to you stating things that you have no clue about. What you propose took place 'accidentally' that day is not possible, for it means everyone in the aircraft and the TRACON'S would have had to have simultaneously malfunctioned on a scale nobody has ever heard of, and that is simply not a possibility.
before I sign off, 'full military power' has to be approved, the pilot does not have the discretion to arbitrarily break the goddamned sound barrier over populated areas, without approval, first being due to the damage from the shock waves they create when they do it, and secondarily, because this means they have to have some reasonable assurance that a tanker is going to be aloft in time to fill them up before they have to make an emergency landing on a highway somewhere, or airport. NORAD's pilots were 'forbidden' from using 'full military power' that day. Why? This is not an assertion, it is a 'fact' supported by hard proof. You making the statement that nobody had to tell them anything, is also a bunch of bullshit. As an interceptor pilot, though you can do a lot of things, you also cannot take action without approval on many many things while you are doing your job, and this includes shooting down airplanes. By the way, 'shooting down' those airliners was not the only action those pilots could take, had they been allowed to catch them. There are several ways they could have interfered with those planes and deviated them, short of shooting them down, thwarting the hijackers. Lastly, had they gotten permission, they could indeed have shot them down. Given the potential loss of life on the ground, this would have been a logical, very 'last ditch' option, not option number one. do you understand that?
now that you're a little bit more educated, you need to not assume you know jack shit unless you've either 'been there and done that', as I have, or have some idea of what the fuck you are talking about, as most people do not. I'm not intimating you are a blithering idiot, I am asserting you are woefully 'ignorant' of reality and the procedures and processes that have existed for many many years, and because of that, you know not what you are talking about with regard to NORAD and what it did or did not do. Reading some book is not enough to give you this kind of knowledge, it can only be had by EXPERIENCE!!!
I have infinitely more knowledge and yes, EXPERIENCE, about the ATC system, flying airplanes in the PCA, and procedures that exist for exactly the kinds of occurrences and contingencies that would have happened on Sept 11, 2001. Don't you ever tell me otherwise, unless you first strap on a fast, large airplane and fly it for several thousand hours first. Put on a military uniform as well, so you know how that chain of command thing works, too.
enough said. This was no accident what took place on Sept. 11, 2001. It had to have been crafted and engineered to happen the way it did that day. A whole lot of people in our government had to have been involved in it to take place like that. A lot of people in government were not involved. But a core group of conspirators and operators at very high levels of our government and our military had to have been involved in what took place that day, it could not have happened without collusion and cooperation. period!
nobody is ever going to tell me that the entire goddamned air defense system of North America went 'tits up' on Sept. 11, 2001, and allowed this to just happen, unless they can match my experience level and intensive knowledge of the radar and ATC system, and procedures. not you, or anyone else. I have too many years of real, earned, cockpit and engineering experience for you or anyone else to challenge the veracity of what I have stated as possible in this blog. I did not get it from reading some book, or blog, or crap I found on the internet. I got it thru years of blood, sweat, and tears experience and more hours in airplane cockpits than you have doing virtually everything else except perhaps sleeping. there are some of us out there who not only fly airplanes, we are highly technical, and ex-military, with operational combat experience. it took years to get that.
one more thing: those airplanes were maneuvered in ways that, according to ATC controller statements, based on what they saw on their scopes, virtually would have 'assured' they exceeded MMO (operating speeds) and therefore most likely would have 'broken' their aircraft and rendered them 'unable' to make it to their intended targets. You don't hotrod an airliner like it's made of one solid piece of titanium. It is not. It cannot withstand the aerodynamic loads of high speed, high angle of bank turns, without either 'stalling' these airplanes and losing control of them in 'accellerated stalls' (the wing quits flying) or causing structural malformations and breakages in the horizontal stabilizer, wings, or rudders or control surfaces of these class of aircraft. Exceeding mach numbers beyond .8 or so on the mach meter (airspeed indicator) in these airplanes has serious, serious consequences. More often than not, total structural failure and loss of the aircraft occurs. To the lay person, 'in flight breakup' occurs. these airplanes were never designed to be abused by inexperienced, relatively untrained crews, and not
be rendered 'destroyed' by them accidentally. to have flown them the way they were flown that day, it's an absolute 'certainty' that engines would have been ripped from pylons on the wings, or other failures would have occurred. recovering control of a 'stalled' airliner which is plummeting at several thousand feet per minute vertically, at high altitudes, is very very intense business, and not for a neophyte aviator with minimal experience in anything except a Cessna 172, as most of them allegedly had. The degree of skill required to do this kind of flying, far exceeded both the level of skill the alleged aviators had, as well as the structural integrity of the airplanes themselves. period.
and, having tested flight data recorders for durability, for the record, let me also state that it is virtually not possible for the crash protected memory modules of these boxes to be completely, utterly destroyed, except by perhaps an event rivaling a crash, where the temperatures encounted exceeded 1100 degrees centigrade for more than 12 hours, as they must withstand to be certified for commercial aicraft use. never did any temperatures in the WTC or elswhere on Sept. 11, at crash sites, ever get there. you might not find the orange outer coating of the box, but the memory module will be there, somewhere, intact, with their internal data more or less recoverable and readable. according to the government, some of these boxes either 'ceased to exist' or 'were found and had no useful information on them' which is also quite preposterous. malfunctions aside, this is very very fishy.
oh, your assertion of in-flight cellular phone conversations also is quite 'hillarious', having tried that on a number of occasions, to no avail. If they weren't using the onboard flite phone equipment (pay for play) phones, the chances of anyone successfully talking to anyone from a cellular phone from an airliner, in my professional opinion, based upon scientific evidence as well, is virtually 'zero' from any altitude higher than a couple thousand feet, and in slow flight, due to the radiation patterns of both the ground based cellular equipment (receive patterns rather limited in the vertical plane) and the very low radiated power of the phones themselves. therefore, those calls not placed via the onboard equipment, were either totally 'bogus' or 'intentionally generated by special equipment by unknown persons intending them to be perceived as real calls' by anyone. As an engineer as well as pilot, I want to state for the record, that this is such an absurd idea that handheld consumer cell phones placed any of those calls for more than a few seconds that day, based on real laws of physics. To assert otherwise is a bunch of bullshit.
in other words, no stewardess or passenger could have ever used a hand held portable cellular phone that day with any degree of success. It is not possible. If you calculate the frequency of known cellular phones, minimum discernible sensitivities, signal path losses of those, and those of the ground based equipment and the phones themselves, and the antenna gain figures of the cellular antennas on the handsets and the towers, this is a virtual 'impossibility' from every conceivable scientific angle. thoses calls had to be intentionally falsely created and broadcast, and that infers a whole lot of conspiracy took place on Sept. 11, 2001, to do exactly that. our goverment has the capability to do exactly this. The 'military' term for this is 'meaconing' or "the intentional broadcast or re-broadcast of false information to achieve a military objective..", as it's put in the military ops manuals. It encompases everything from altering radar signals and re-broadcasting them, all the way to communications jamming and deception. It's done by the military normally during military operations, but the Bush administration seems to have now blurred that line between the NSA, the military, and the Constitution in ways that suggest that any 'military' capability can and will be used against the civilian population of this nation, at will, without oversight of any kind. Voice synthesis of human speech to exactly emulate any person on this earth exists in the military inventory, and there is no doubt in my mind that it was used on Sept. 11, 2001, to deceive the public. No doubt at all.
shooting holes in your; "oh, it was a bunch of accidents happening" assertion, isn't being done here to make a fool out of you, you've done that pretty damned well yourself. what I am doing here is making sure, for the record, that the assumption that 'incompetence' is the sole reason Sept. 11, 2001 happened, is put to bed, once and for all. nobody is going to ever convince me it was anything but coordinated, conspiratorial action that allowed it.
ATC personnel, and pilots,for that matter, are not bumbling idiots, who get to arbitrarily do whatever they choose. rules, regulations, procedures exist to enhance safety, and ensure that pandemonium doesn't reign in situations where extreme calm and competency must prevail. though I am not a fan of civil servants, and some pilots, I want to say right here and now that you are not your average everyday village idiot doing those jobs, for a reason. you have to get certifications beyond the average citizen's competency level to do these jobs, and you must constantly re-certify and re-certify and re-certify. everyone is a professional, in spite of what you might believe. it is the only way air travel can be as safe as it has been for so very very many years. it didn't happen by accident. it was by design. pilots don't have to have the level of technical knowledge I have, but my military experience and job demanded it. I didn't get it out of a box of goddamned cracker jacks!
I think you need to get a whole lot of real world experience before you get to refute me on these facts I have presented herein. I demand it, actually.
if you want challenge me, you better get a lot of man years of flight/ATC/technical experience and operational military experience to do that. otherwise, don't be putting out bullshit you have not one clue about on here. you know not what you are talking about.
and lastly, don't be telling me that the ATC system and F.A.A. regulations I have used to stay alive for about 40 years, suddenly were 'faulty' or 'not up to it' because they weren't. they work, and have worked. On Sept 11, 2001, something altogether different was going on, and it had to be intentionally done. I stand by that. there are exceptions to most rules, but too many of them had to happen that day, and I am not buying that for a second, and for you to hawk that crap on here is just wrong. don't do it!
Can't believe MIHOP---but LIHOP works for you?
Sorry, love, but if they let it happen, they just as good as MADE it happen.
Premeditated murder is always a conspiracy--those who destroy evidence at the crime scene, resist investigating the murder, then tamper with said murder investigation, make themselves, at the very least, assecories after the fact to murder.
Impeachment. Accountabiility. A better world.
Col. Jenny Sparks
Does F15s look for transponders?
I could not help it to find your F15 story kind of strange. You say F15s were waiting for a bip on their screen? Does this mean that thte US government has a secret agreement with all it's enemies to put a transpondr to identify themselves so US war planes can "find" them?
that was a really funny joke,
/M
www.pilotsfor911truth.org
When the transponders are turned off, that doesn't mean the plane disappears. Listen to the interview with airtraffic controllers. They said they passed the baton to the pentagon very early on. On June 1, 2001, the orders were switched around and put the power in the hands of Rumsfeld. Why were the fighters from Langley, 1 mile from the Pentagon, sent out over the Atlantic ocean? Perhaps if FBI whistleblower Sibel Edmonds had all her gag orders taken away she could tell us exactly what she knows, and according to her, it's alot. Everything from the money laundering, drug trafficking, and it's ties to terrorism and 9/11. With something so dense, people have trouble wrapping their heads around it and they just write it off. Why in the world did the administration actively fight an investigation? Why are the members of the Family Steering committee still calling for a new investigation and claiming that they all lied? It's time to get rid of our cognitive dissonance and examine the facts. Whenever someone tells me they'll believe when someone involved comes forward, I just laugh.
The facts are there
and they don't match the government's story. It is amazing to me that people who I know and are very intelligent can't face the truth no matter how you try.
the truth is too scary to them.
I worked in research all my life so details and results have to somehow match.
So if you have all of this
So if you have all of this knowledge about exactly what SHOULD have happened that day, due to standard procedures, have you contacted any news outlets? Have you attempted, in any way, to get the story out there? Because if not, YOU are helping the government get away with what they, according to you, have done. I mean, you've even gone so far as accusing me of treason because I don't believe what you're saying, or because I've given MY POINT OF VIEW (backed up by the actual facts of what happened that day.) Aren't you guilty of the same, if you're allowing them to get away with it?
And basically, what you're also saying is that every single person who is either now or has been, in the past, employed by NORAD or who knows the specific details of how Air Traffic Control is carried out, is also allowing all of this false information to go undisputed in the mainstream. Do you realize how many people that includes? Also, every single person who has the same flying experience you claim you have, and who should also be fully aware of everything you've stated -- are they ALL in on it? Are they ALL keeping it hush-hush for some reason? Do they ALL want our government to get away with what you claim they have done? Do you realize how many people that includes? MILLIONS, if you're talking about everybody who has any experience with flying commercial jets, military fighters, everybody who is either now or has ever been employed as a pilot or air traffic controller.
So why do all these MILLIONS of people not say anything? Why haven't YOU contacted any news outlets? Is EVERYBODY in on it? Are they all perfectly willing to allow our government to get away with carrying out the worst, most horrific terrorist attack ever perpetrated against our country?
Why hasn't one single major news outlet given any credence to your claim? I mean, if those MILLIONS OF PEOPLE can back up what YOU ARE saying, wouldn't it mean something? Is every single person working for a major news outlet "in on it" too? Do they ALL want our governemnt to get away with what you claim they have done?
Also, let's look at the thousands of the people who made it out of the towers that day. One of the claims, here, is that the towers were brought down by explosives. How likely do you think it is that NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON who made it out alive later remembered seeing something fishy going on? Where were these explosives? How were they put in the buildings, WHERE were they left so that nobody would see them? It couldn't have happened. Somebody HAD to have seen something. Why would none of them tell the truth about a LARGE TEAM OF PEOPLE having been in the buildings, before 9-11, laying explosives? Why would none of them tell of SEEING the explosive charges? It was mentioned that bomb-sniffing dogs were kept out of the buildings, so as not to detect the explosives. Were they ALL explosives that were hidden so thoroughly that not a single trace of them could be seen? If so, WHERE were they left and how was this carried out? As I've said, you're talking about buildings that had 24/7 security and the people working there going in and out at all hours of the day.
My point is, and has always been, that what you are saying could never have been carried out without the cooperation of many, many people. NOW what we have is you providing all kinds of so-called "proof" that the official story of what happened at the air-traffic control level and the NORAD response is 100% fiction. So in order for the government to get away with what they have done, they would've had to have been able to count on the cooperation of everybody in the WTC towers, and they would've had to have known none of them would talk about it if they saw something fishy; they would've had to have known that they could count on the cooperation of every single person who has ever been an air-traffic controller and know that they would not come forward and say, "Hey... this doesn't add up"; they would've had to have known they could count on the cooperation of every single person who has ever worked for NORAD or who has ever been a commercial pilot and know they would not come forward and say, "Hey.. this doesn't add up."
Wow... that's a lot of people to have to count on. How amazing is it that, so far, it's all worked out?
Julie, Julie, Julie...
your so called facts are just wrong dear! Go back and fact check a bit hon!
Read "911 and American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out!"
It's probably the most important book of these times!
I urge everyone to read it!
And thank you to the pilot posting in the previous posts! Thank you for offering your expert analysis and for speaking out against this crime!
you're welcome!
to not speak out about it is to be an 'accessory to a criminal act' by remaining silent and not trying to educate the people out there who have neither the aviation knowledge, or the technical knowledge, or the military experience in both of those realms. it is my hope that more people will speak out, but there are also a lot of people who are afraid that if they get identified, their air carrier will 'fire' them or retaliate, especially American Airlines, who had to have been part of the plot in some fashion, for they have gone along with the story that their aircraft were destroyed in the events that day, and at least '2' of those planes 'N' numbers still are 'active' and not marked 'destroyed' in the F.A.A. aircraft registration database.
hopefully people will start to look at the nearly total lack of debris in front of the Pentagon, and the tiny gouge in the ground in Shanksville and realize that no B-700 series 'anything' could possibly have done either of those without much more wreckage, body parts, aluminum confetti all over the place. airplanes disintegrate, but some components do not. some are so dense, molecularly, that they continue to exist, albeit rather folded, spindled, and mutilated by the crash forces.
so, you're welcome. I apologized to JulieAnn and rightfully so. I just get so pissed when people inadvertently parrot stuff that's not real, and then it reinforces b.s. that gives these treasonous bastards a 'pass' for their heinous, unimaginable criminality and murdering.
best wishes to you all as you seek out the truth, but you can rest assured your government didn't give you any truth whatsoever.
I have looked over the
I have looked over the comments, here, again and I would like to say that I think the manner some here have taken with me is entirely uncalled for. Accusing a person of treason because they don't agree with you, or because you believe they don't accept what you're telling them as fact, is entirely absurd. I also apologize for suggesting that, if you believe I have committed treason, then by your own reasoning, you yourself have also committed treason. I shouldn't have played into that type of hyperbolic rhetoric just because somebody else did. It seems to me that, in today's political discourse, the accusation of treason is tossed around way too freely and I regret having stepped over that line, myself.
I also don't believe it's necessary for others, here, to resort to name-calling. There is no reason why we can't have an ADULT conversation -- one that doesn't include insults -- when discussing these matters.
I would also like to stress that, in my previous comments, I wasn't suggesting that I don't believe our government was behind 9/11 BECAUSE the accusations, here, haven't been given any weight in the mainstream media. There were many other reasons behind the conclusions I, myself, had drawn. What I meant to point out was that there would have had to have been many people who knew that certain stories of what happened that day didn't add up, and was wondering why you, here, think those people haven't said anything.
I have spent some time looking around on the internet, checking into some of the claims made, here. This led me off into other areas concerning strange explanations and also unexplained events that took place prior to the attacks of 9/11. As a result of all of this, I have now realized that there ARE people speaking out, and it has also raised many questions in my own mind.
I haven't finished researching this on my own, but I just wanted to say that I no longer feel this is a case that should be closed, or that people should just accept the official "story" about what happened. I can't begin to describe how it makes me feel to even contemplate the question: "Could what they are saying be true?"
I'll just conclude by saying that I am now looking at these matters from a more open-minded perspective. Yes, believe me, I DO see the irony in the fact that it was I who, just the other day, accused someone else, here, of being closed-minded.
you more or less accuse those of us who know better lying
you need to just quit this pollyann'ish bullshit of beliving that; "oh, my government could never do that.."
for the record, I apologize to you for using profanity, but I am sick and tired of people who don't know what the hell they are saying, decrying that their government "could never do this.."
way too many of you out there need to realize that not only 'could' they indeed 'do this' but evidence seems to overwhelmingly support that they did, in fact, DO THIS, and that it means that whoever in our govermnent was responsible, be they 12 or so, or fifty, they themselves underestimated those of us out there who won't rest till they are fully exposed and then they are fully prosecuted, and 'hanged' for their treason.
and I am sorry I have offended you. I just never want someone with no clue what they are talking about, telling someone who's been there and done that (flown for most of his life!!!) that this shit that happened on Sept. 11, 2001, was a collossal 'accident' and that it happened because everyone was caught with their pants down.
the degree of clearance deviation that triggers extreme scrutiny and action by ATC and NORAD, for that matter, has always been intentionally slight, to prevent what took place that day, for it's always been better to be "safe than sorry" than to simply be "sorry" as it is now.
the controllers who were interviewed after this all made tape recorded statements about what they recalled, and the F.A.A. sent people to get those recordings and then 'destroy' them so they could never be played. those tapes do not exist today because the government took active measures to destroy evidence in a criminal investigation. that is a felony, and in fact, it rises to the level of treason in and of itself.
so please, JulieAnn, don't tell a professional pilot that you don't believe the government had anything to do with this. I have been at this for far too long to believe otherwise. it is not possible that they played a strictly passive role.
what hit the pentagon that day was never a Boeing 'anything' model, and what crashed in Shanksville, PA. wasn't a whole airliner, either.
why the government is destroying evidence and witholding videotapes from the final trajectories that day is beyond me. that tiny silver sliver that hit the pentagon must have lost it's engines that day before it got there, for those RB-211's (engines) would have punched their way all the way to the center core of the building, although I did see a diffuser casing that certainly looked like it may have been one from an RB-211 rolls royce powerplant model 211, but no penetration points for that to have been in there in the first place.
till the day comes when those videos are released, the reason for destruction of controller interviews is justified, and a whole lot of other bullshit happens, I am going to believe for the rest of my life that people inside this government not only murdered more than 2900 american's that day, but they committed HIGH TREASON, and should HANG BY THE NECK FOR IT!
so, I apologize. I hope you'll accept that, it's sincere!!!
Apology accepted and thank
Apology accepted and thank you.
"but I am sick and tired of people who don't know what the hell they are saying, decrying that their government "could never do this.."
Believe me, I never meant to convey that I believed our government "could never do this" because they would never do anything like this. My feelings were simply that it would be impossible for them to carry something like this out and get away with it. I felt they would have to entrust too many people with the truth.
Now that I am weighing the possibilities, I have realized that they could enlist the assistance of others without having to trust them with the entire truth. The types of people they would need to help them are those who are used to having two faces; doing one thing and saying another wouldn't be anything new to them.
And much of the official "story" has taken care of itself. Once millions of Americans were told what happened that day, they just believe that's the case. I know... I was one of them.
But I didn't just rely on what I was told by the media. I HAVE read timelines on the internet, and I WAS skeptical about some of it. I just wasn't ready to accept the possibility that so much of it is something different from what we're being told, that just seemed too far-fetched to me. Again, not because I didn't believe our government would do it.
As I mentioned the other day, one thing that has always bothered me is the way President Bush reacted that day, and the answer he later gave when he was asked what 'went through his mind' while it was happening. It is obvious that he made up a story about his thoughts. As far as I was (and still am) concerned, the only explanation for this is that the thoughts in his mind that day were NOT the thoughts of somebody who had been caught by surprise, so he had to make something up. And the media just lets him slide when he says things that don't make any sense. Of course, the reason they do this is simple: He so often stumbles and bumbles when he tries to express himself that nobody expects any real words of wisdom to come out of his mouth, so they just brush it aside and move on.
But this is too important to just brush aside. EVERYBODY should be wondering why he made up a story when he was asked that particular question.
you're very welcome, now we must educate everyone as best we can
I am glad you wrote back, and I am hoping we can work together to get answers. I don't have all of them, but I have knowledge and information that says "NO" to the official story. My thoughts on 'how' they have managed to get away with it, is that from my military days, I managed to garner enough information about how information is 'blocked' to now believe that only a handful of people inside of our government had 'apriori' knowledge about every aspect of this plot/plan/criminality and this kept a whole lot of other people from saying anything. also, 'fear' is a huge motivational factor, for having knowledge like this, you can end up 'suicided' somewhere, if you get my drift.
I wore a uniform (both types) far too long to just sit back and let this one slide. our very democracy is in grave danger because of these monsters being able to get away with it. as for the look of 'stupefication' on Bush's face, I think he was never in on the planning stages of this, but had to be brought into it after the fact to allow it to continue. His father probably played more of a direct hand in the actually planning and execution of this, than did the boy savant. Does that mean the 'boy' didn't ultimately get on board? Oh yes, he loved the fact he was going to be able to 'hijack' the controls of our entire government under this ruse and murder. If you read the Project for a New American Century's 'manifesto', you can clearly see how long ago this 'second phase' of this was in the planning, publically. I think John Poindexter, who was involved in the total information awareness datamining, was at the core of this, as were a whole lot of people within the board rooms of the Military Industrial Complex. In other words, most of this took place in board rooms, in secrecy, with perhaps no more than 12 or 20 some odd high level U.S. government personnel, mostly Cheney people, being fully aware of it all. I had thought someone would have sung like a tweetie bird by now, but for fear of becomming 'dead' by 'suicide' I'm sure that most have kept their traps shut. If the so-called democratic party truly holds hearings and subpoena's people, I think that it will then shed light on the fringe members outside the PNAC gang in Cheney's office, who orchestrated this. Stephen Cambone and Douglas Feith no doubt were primaries involved in this, and under oath, albeit might be 'liars under oath' may also be compelled, under threat of perjury penalties, may have to tell on the rest of the gang.
make no mistake, we don't all have the answers, but the assumption of "how come nobody has come forward???" being the major reason not to dig deeper, is answered by looking at what happened to Danny Casolaro when he was getting to the bottom of Dept. of Justice and Mafia wrongdoing, and ended up suicided in a bathtub over it.
they can't kill everyone, but it will take one good credible witness testifying before the senate to blow this wide open, and I hope for the sake of this nation, we get to see it. If we don't, our country, as a democracy, is 'finished' and fully a dictatorship.
and we'll all rue the day we let it slide, Julie Ann.
thanks for your reply!!
the bush administration is responsible for 9/11
dear anonymous..your words are right on..would u mind if i e-mail
to people re 911 for truth..he is as determined as you to get
the facts together and see that those involved will be subject to
facing the truth for their part in murdering innocent people and
will get their just dues. in peace, harmony, and justice, seniordem
go ahead! we need people to know the truth!
everything I have published here is based on reality. I hope that the American people ultimately find out that select elements of their government not only conspired to do these things, but people in the Military Industrial Complex had to have been part of this, at that very same level, for it to have been done with so few being in on the plot.
if anyone ever gets their hands on the videotapes of the final trajectories of the pentagon 'object' as it approached, that'll prove it was a 'remote control job' strictly. another poster seems to think the two WTC aircraft were remote controlled, and I think that is a very very very good theory, based on the fact that the precision required in the terminal phases of flight would have required significantly higher flight expertise than cessna 172 pilots with expertise levels that made their instructors think their private pilot certifications were a bit heady for them.
in any case, I think the best bet is to get those ATC specialists under subpoena and into senate hearings, so they can testify to what they saw on the scopes that day. Those people, like the one lady controller, Danielle, saw things that gave them reason to think that what they were watching was a highly maneuverable military airplane they were watching on those scopes.
I cannot talk to other pilots about this stuff, most will clam up and walk away, disturbed, if you enter into; "hey, were you flying that day???" conversations, especially those in Cleveland or New York Center's airspace that morning. I know '2' personally who absolutely won't talk, and it's not out of fear, it's because someone had a chat with them, is my guess. someone wearing government credentials maybe.
in any case, we must press on and fully investigate, and fully prosecute this criminality. it is the keystone to the breaches of our civil rights and the shredding of the U.S. Constitution. We can never let this just ride.
more pilots will speak out, if their identities are not published, and I hope that the ones in Cleveland's ATC jurisdiction that morning will come forward when the hearings start, and testify as to what happened. I also think that eyewitnesses to what the object was that 'hit' in Shanksville, will also come forward. That was no airliner, and neither was what hit the Pentagon.
TREASONOUS!
MOONBATS.
white owl smoking faggot pnac bastard!
pole smoking republican neocon, go fuck yourself!