Send your tax rebate checks to these people with "FOR IMPEACHMENT" on them, and send photocopies of the checks to these people.
Resist Election Madness.
Tell Congress this.
Sing our theme song.
The Federal Impeachment Process: A Constitutional and Historical Analysis
Cowboy Republic: Six Ways the Bush Gang Has Defied the Law
United States v. George W. Bush et al.
The Genius of Impeachment: The Founders' Cure for Royalism
Articles of Impeachment Against George W. Bush
The Impeachment of George W. Bush: A Practical Guide for Concerned Citizens
The Case for Impeachment
Impeach the President: The Case Against Bush and Cheney
George W. Bush versus the U.S. Constitution: The Downing Street Memos and Deception, Manipulation, Torture, Retribution, and Cover-ups in the Iraq War and Illegal Domestic Spying
Verdict and Findings of Fact
Impeach Bush: A Funny Li'l Graphical Novel About the Worstest Pres'dent in the History of Forevar
Pretensions to Empire: Notes on the Criminal Folly of the Bush Admin- istration
The Twilight of Democracy: The Bush Plan for America
So ... When Will We Finally Reach Our "Breaking Point"?
Submitted by Stephie1776 on Thu, 2008-03-27 01:34.
During this current Presidential election madness, the candidates who were the most viable -- at least on the Democratic side -- were sent into exile and relative obscurity by the oligarch-controlled, business friendly MSM, who were determined to select the most appealing (from their point of view) candidates.
Dennis Kucinich, Mike Gravel, Bill Richardson, Chris Dodd and John Edwards were all systematically excluded from the various candidate debates, with the exclusion of Kucinich being the most egregious offense, and after all was said and done, we were left with (or more accurately, stuck with) Senators Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama to represent the Democratic Party, while John McCain managed to eliminate what few challengers there were on the Republican side.
What we're looking at is yet another least/worst set of Presidential candidates, and you'd think that the American electorate -- especially the 80% of the electorate who earn $50 thousand dollars a year or less -- would get tired of always having to select the "lesser of two, or three, evils", but this, sadly, isn't the case.
Why are too many of our fellow citizens ready to embrace yet another "least/worst" set of Presidential candidates? The answer is very simple ...
Over the last four decades, we haven't had a Presidential candidate who has really challenged the American electorate to become creative, innovative contributors to the life and future of the nation, and to join the candidate as equal partners in the business of governing the nation. The last Presidential candidate who laid this challenge before the American people was John Kennedy, and because he dared to challenge the American electorate to work hard, and to be ready and willing to sacrifice personal goals, pleasures and desires so they could accept personal responsiblity for their fellow human beings and for the future of the nation, many were willing to lay aside religious prejudice and elect him as the first Catholic to hold the office of President.
Today, we have yet another bit of history before us as a black man and a woman are running for the office of President, but there's one problem -- as historic an occasion as this could be, it's being squandered by both the Clinton and Obama campaigns, due to the pervasive influence of the politics of "virtuous victimization", which the current "Presidential" administration has raised to the level of an art form.
Hillary Clinton addresses the American people about economic issues, continually invoking the name of Franklin Roosevelt as though reciting his name will release some type of "magical" power, yet she takes money from the financier/corporate oligarchy, as well as the cartels which are robbing the nation blind -- including Big Oil, Big Pharma, Big Finance and Big Defense -- while claiming that she'll defend the "forgotten Americans" from these same financial predators.
Barack Obama talks about "hope" and "change", but he hasn't yet elaborated what kind of substantive change he wishes to see for the nation, and when he has spoken about "change", it's been nothing but a bunch of cookie-cutter generalities, sorely lacking in specifics and solid ideas.
John McCain babbles on about the "necessity for America to remain strong", and continue to fight the "War on Terror", which, like our nation's three decade long "War on Drugs", has been a miserable failure which is draining away the nation's treasure and citizenry at a rapid pace.
Despite all of the words which have been spoken, none of these candidates have fully addressed and engaged the American electorate in a dialogue about the future of the United States, and the future of mankind. None of these candidates have done an effective job of encouraging the American electorate to develop the confidence and trust in themselves and their ability to shoulder the sense of responsibility of looking beyond the present and into the future by becoming equal partners in -- and equal owners of -- the government.
All of them have indulged in "Elmer Gantryism", that is, when they speak, they do a great job of stirring up the emotions, and they all manage to evoke an emotional response from their listeners, but that's it. The surprising lack of solid, substantive ideas coming from Clinton, Obama and NcCain should be cause for great concern among truly thinking citizens, because it's the ideas and principles which incorporate the best of the past, while laying down the foundation for the future of the nation to be built upon which should be the candidates' main focus. The climate of anti-intellectualism which has been forged over the last five Presidencies is still very much in force, and all of the current Presidential candidates are continuing that same anti-intellectual bias.
Also, the politics of "virtuous victimization" has encouraged too many among the American electorate to throw "poor-me-baby" pity parties, in which they moan, groan and complain about how "victimized" they are by various mysterious, shadowy forces, how they never get a break because "they" won't let them, along with other complaints about just how terrible things are.
Yet, in spite of their constant complaining and whining about how bad things are (from high gas prices to high food prices), they refuse to get up and do anything about it. They talk about "patriotism", but indulge in surface forms of "patriotism", such as wearing a flag lapel on their clothing, or fly the flag on their front porch. They don't want to take the risks which come with real patriotism, nor do they want to get up from the recliner in order to take action.
Our current crop of Presidential candidates are very much aware of this mood and mindset among the American people, and they exploit it for all its worth by not talking about the future in terms of 100 or even 200 years into the future. If they talk about the future at all, it's always in terms of the immediate future, say a year or two from now.
There is no talk about what America's goals are for humanity or what is the U.S.A. going to do for the future of humanity. No talk of impeachment or prosecution, no talk of restoring the Constitution. Instead, the national "poor-me-baby" pity party is allowed to continue uninterrupted; a gathering of "virtuous victims" who attempt to out-do each other by playing "mind games" such as "Look, Ma... I'm Suffering!", or "I'm Suffering More, So I'm Better Than You" while they're waiting for their political "Messiah" (or "Santa Claus") to come and rescue them from the hopeless plight they find themselves in.
Which brings up this question, when will we finally reach the "breaking point" when we no longer tolerate the "poor-me-baby" pity party politics of "virtuous victimization" and demand that our Presidential candidates talk to us as human beings, instead of talking at us as though we were poor little "victims" who are helpless, powerless and incapable of doing anything for ourselves?
Stephie1776. You ask some painful questions.
To start with "Which brings up this question, when will we finally reach the "breaking point"".
To suffer under the yoke of oppression, long past the point of rational understanding, has been the nature of most men, for as long as history has been recorded and before.
"Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, Or to take arms against a sea of troubles, and by opposing, end them."
Hamlet is incapable of action as he struggles with the "moral dilima". Our dilima is not much different than his. What does it mean to become a criminal within a criminal kingdom?
So we curse the fates that brought us here, wallowing in self rightous indignation? Or do we meet this day like any other generation before us and simply do what is to be done?
When these "candidates" (and we KNOW what has taken place with the elections, so we KNOW they are not OUR candidates. They belong to the corporations now) "talk at us as if we are poor little victims" they know they are providing what most of us want; an excuse to wait.
Throughout Bush's war, the Neo-Con advisors broke his intire presidency down into section of 6 months. They were forever asking for, and recieving, more blank checks with the "give it 6 more months" rationale. Give it "time" to work.
And we gave it to them.
I say WE because we did not storm the White House as was the case in 2002 when they got Hugo Chavez back. We did not shut down the congress or occupy the Mall on Washington till they met our demands.
We waited. We blogged. We wrote. And we gave speeches. All that energy, now just blips on the YouTubeRadar.
Presidential candidates will NOT talk to us as if we are human; at least these won't. Because to them, we are not human. We are just batteries that power the diversion machine and the serfs that provide the temples for pharroh. They don't talk to us because we are powerless and they know it.
"Just 6 more months, give it a chance to work."
And so we wait.
There is no talk of impeachment or war crimes. No talk of the Trans Afghan Pipeline or the democracy of Iran. No talk of the Palistinians suffering under one of the most oppressive regimes in recent history. No talk of the problem with the economic system being the system itself.
They lie with impunity, and their campaigns just go on. How could we even condsider electing another liar to the White House? How could the MSM not obliterate this candidate for that in light of what we have just been through?
The answer is simple; we DON'T hire them anymore. They do. and they don't give a shit about liars; they WANT liars.
We are a nation of subjects in the "greatest democracy in history" and we must be careful because the 'terrorists hate us for our freedom".
Good reply WIlly
The political party I belong to is the entire body politic of the United States of America and our Constitution that I support without bias which neither states or implies any allegiance with any other socalled organized political party.
Honest answer? If McCain is president, THAT will really break us
That will be the breaking point. Bush brought us to the edge of the precipice, McCain will push us over. The problem with that scenario is that we will BE broken.
Americans can choose to unite now behind the least distasteful of the VIABLE candidates, and hold on to some semblance of a country while we "change" and demand accountability and healing.
Or we can bicker our way over the abyss. Neocons are very good at divide and conquer.
IMPEACH BUSHCO & RICO PNAC/AIPAC>"OUT" ANTI-AMERICAN CABALS!
WE MUST DEFEAT MCCAIN!!!
Well, I Certainly Agree BUT Suggest The Best Way 'To Defeat' IS
Is simply not to vote for the jerk. MCCAIN is no war hero as the man will claim he is and the media and certain interested others will support -- It's all lies in that regard. And it's those LIES that have reinforced his position as a Senator and as a GOP Candidate for President of the USA.
Here's a photo that clearly shows MCCAIN long has had the blessings of GWB and his inner circle of 'friends' // Can't get much closer than that without a cigarette afterwards:
http://dragonballyee.blogs.com/philly/images/mccain_hugs_bush_500.jpg
And now check out this YouTube video and website as to MCCAIN's POW status (war hero? -- I think it's called something other):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBiti-ZbeO0
http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/
Informative reply Jbrid
The political party I belong to is the entire body politic of the United States of America and our Constitution that I support without bias which neither states or implies any allegiance with any other socalled organized political party.
Not voting McCain will not prevent him from attaining office
McCain is a DANGEROUS NEOCON. Merely not voting for him will not keep him out of the White House. We have to unite behind one viable candidate who WILL keep McCain out of the White House. As distasteful as that is, McCain in the Oval Office will be a BITTER PILL all of us have to swallow if we do not unite before November.
Or we can bicker our way over the abyss into the blackhole of Neoconism.
IMPEACH BUSHCO & RICO PNAC/AIPAC>"OUT" ANTI-AMERICAN CABALS!
WE MUST DEFEAT MCCAIN!!!
Has it ever occured to you Yank...
that you are not going to convince the Mccain voters anyway... and the progressives and liberals are also not going to vote for McCain in the first place.
So focusing on "defeating McCain" is preaching to the choir.
Focus on what we can do to restore accountability now. Focus on what has to happen now. Impeachment.
Or, is what you are really saying is that you agree with Conyers, and you think impeachment will hurt Obama's chances, so you are really working AGAINST impeachment here.
.
.
Has it ever occurred to you , lowman,
to think before you write? Your tactics are so obvious and Machiavellian. If so many factions are voting against McCain, then he can STILL win, simply because there are so many factions. We have lived through 2000 and 2004, so we KNOW the Neocons are capable of taking over America AGAIN if we do not unite. That is already a given.
I listen to Conyers because he has about 81 years of life, and 40 years more experience with these Washington hooligans than you and me. I respect the man's tenure and experience and the FACT that he is the architect of the impeachment document "Constitution in Crisis" against Bush/Cheney (lest ye so soon forget).
I also respect that he MIGHT just know more of what he is talking about than you do . He is the man that decides whether impeachment goes forward or not. I listen to him because of that, and I want to find out what is weighing on his mind and on his shoulders. He apparently is afraid of impeachment impeding the election . I want to know why he feels that way. The election AND impeachment are BOTH important to this country. John Conyers is a wise man, not a naive one, who is weighing a decision that will affect the country's future as well as our foreign policy, and he has to live with the outcome if it does not work, and if it does work, because Conyers will be made responsible in history for the outcome. He has to weigh the pros and the cons. Not you, not me.
I am not working against impeachment here, so stop your vicious lies, lowman. You have spun your wheels trying to replace Pelosi . Why don't YOU FOCUS on impeaching Bush and Cheney instead?
MCCAIN/LIEBERMAN '08!
Yank, you have said yourself impeachment will hurt the dems...
...in Nov. What I have asked is based on your comments; these same comments that MANY people here take exception with.
If Conyers does not attempt impeachment proceedings, he will be responsible for the outcome;
the soldiers lives that are being lost.
the Iraqi lives that are being lost.
the Iranian lives that will be lost.
Do you think lives will be saved if McCain is in office, lowman?
Mr. McInsane wants to be in Iraq another hundred years. Mr. McBomb wants to bomb Iran. Dick Cheney says "So" to the concerns of American people who are aghast at so much bloodshed . I DO believe with all my heart , soul and mind that there will be MUCH LESS bloodshed with Dems in Oval Office. I've been a Republican, a Democrat and an Independent in my life. So you can falsely accuse me of partisanship all you want. Clearly , you are the one that doesn't give a damn if MCCAIN causes more nonstop bloodshed or not after November.
PS David Swanson is co-founder of Democrats.com . Or didn't you know that, lowman?
MCCAIN/LIEBERMAN '08 !
Mr. Swanson has called for "election free zones"...
in a recent article and he links us to "Resist Election Madness" in the upper left hand corner of every page on this site.
He has been very clear where he stand.
He, like most of us, align ideologically with the liberal thinking, but he, like many others, knows that the problem is systemic and therefore must be addressed as such.
I don't presume to speak for anyone else but myself. So I base these comments on what I have read, and heard him say.
You should have listened to his radio show last night about the problems with the electorial process. It was a good show.
Lots of information about how the system is broken and no one wants to address it these days.
That's a Howard Zinn article, so you are bending truth , loman
Nothing new for you though. You believe Marvin Bush caused 9/11.
And most everyone here has been strongly rooting for Dennis Kucinich (A DEMOCRAT) until he dropped out. So for you to say that everyone has to put up and shutup about the election except for Ron Paul trolls is ludicrous.
You can put your head in the sand and pretend November GENERAL ELECTION does not exist , but this is the most important election in American history , in my mind, and I'm not going to be an ostrich about McCain.
MCCAIN/LIEBERMAN '08 !
D. Swanson ".. making the area around you an election free zone"
"Election Madness" is the article I said David LINKS us too.
and Davids article, "Building an Activist Movement" that he posted on this site 3 days ago, is listed here.
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/32041
And what David Swanson wrote is this;
"If we are going to change the public discourse and apply the necessary pressure to force an end to the funding, it will take a fair amount of energy and focus from a great many people. We cannot waste time on other things. That starts by making the area around you an election-free zone. We have an election DAY, and on that day you can vote for the least bad candidate. We don't need an election eternity. "
You are a total waste of time because you either don't read these things people put out there, or you can't understand them.
Either way, quit posting false information about me.
YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I BELIEVE OR DON'T BECAUSE YOU DON'T TAKE THE TIME TO READ OR LISTEN.
Loman, you are beyond the pale with your censoring tactics
You waste our time with replacing Pelosi petition, bragging about your blog , sabotaging people's threads and discussions, re-writing the Constitution, demanding we believe your 9/11 farflung conspiracies, and I simply am trying to discuss things that are relevant NOW. You can pretend that election doesn't exist, or that David is not co-founder of Democrats.com. I LIVE IN THE REAL WORLD.
McCain is a REAL MONSTER. He wants more REAL WARS . He wants REAL BLOODSHED. He may even want a REAL DRAFT. Then all your bullshit to censor people will be fruitless because you will then be in REAL IRAQ.
MCCAIN/LIEBERMAN '08 !
Willy
You should be ashamed of yourself for making someone eat their own written words.
The political party I belong to is the entire body politic of the United States of America and our Constitution that I support without bias which neither states or implies any allegiance with any other socalled organized political party.
Indy, those are Conyers words,
And I have repeated them to start a discussion about his grave and legitimate concerns about losing the White House to McCain. I want to know where the man is coming from on his thoughts about impeachment, election, future of America, foreign policy and saving lives from more war, etc. Conyers is the man for impeachment, like it or not, so if you insult his intelligence and intentions, then you are trying to guarantee there will be no impeachment. I simply want to know where Conyers is coming from.
You should be ashamed for being in the Republican Party that caused all this bloodshed. Don't lie anymore that you are Libertarian, all you talk about and spam us with is RON PAUL. Ron Paul is a REPUBLICAN, and VOTED TO TABLE IMPEACHMENT . Yet you still spam us everyday with the Republican RON PAUL and tabler of impeachment for REPUBLICAN war crimes (who voted for impeachment for Clinton's blowjob lies). So if anyone should be eating their words and their hat, Indy, it's you.
MCCAIN/LIEBERMAN '08 !
You are the Troll here Yank, and you have...
...wasted more than enough of my time.
You will not discuss anything. You simply try one tactic then side step the facts people present to set up another one. You are not here to expolre options; yuo are here to sell only one.
From this moment on you can keep spamming your misinformation all you want, apparently no one here is buying what you are selling anyway.
You focus on Nov. we will focus on today.
Loman, you are a brash arrogant hypocrite and saboteur of ideas
You respect noone else's ideas, while placing your own on a pedestal of your own making. That would be ok, except you destroy other threads and other ideas, you are far worse than any troll , you are a wreckless, and arrogant saboteur of others' ideas and threads.
You think tomorrow will not soon be today? You are have no foresight at all.
MCCAIN/LIEBERMAN '08 !
Not That You Asked -- BUT
Seems to me that both YANK and WILLY are saying basically the same thing when it comes to MCCAIN -- It's how I see him also.
I don't believe (if I'm reading you right) neither want MCCAIN as POTUS. And I believe we all agree at the same time trying to figure out how to keep that from happening may not be our main problem -- in fact I don't believe it is something we need to get hung up on. Him being POTUS wouldn't solve any damn thing, that's for sure, but him being that or not being that isn't going to change any damn thing either -- not with the gangster element we now have in control.
Ever stop and think that maybe(?) MCCAIN truly isn't the powers behind the curtain MAIN PICK anyway. He's there giving it his best shot, but just what that best shot is -- is beyond me. I don't know how anybody could have allowed this guy to be weeded down to where he is today (100 years more of war, give me a f-ing break, who would want that) -- and of course there were initially 11 (GOP) to pick from // but even that // those 11 were not much for anybody to stand proud and wave flags for. Didn't matter though because I believe MCCAIN was predetermined long before any voter ever entered the world of DIEBOLD anyway. Just the good ol' boy payback for all the support he has given them on this war effort from the outset. How he does (final push) is yet to be seen.
But who I consider to be the TRUE PICK of the powers behind the curtain is HBILLARY // Hillary and BILL are so far up the ass of those gangsters that her being POTUS is like daddy Bush and son and BILL never letting go of the control they have had over us here in this nation we call the United States of America. A more appropriate term might be the United States of Confusion because many are confused as to what is really happening in our land. There is no such thing as a fair and honest election, not any more, not since it became very clear that our Supreme Court could 'select' our POTUS for us. Even before that actually, way before that actually, but it became obvious then to those of us still half-asleep even as to what was truly going on in our country.
Take a look at this video -- HACKING DEMOCRACY (long, over an hour, but worth the education):
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7907810896542492471&q=blackboxv...
Take a look at this short clip at how close the lot of them truly are (BUSH/CLINTON):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORM75G-Jby4
(If I understand right -- BILL calls Barbara Bush "MOM" and she considers him one of their own)
Not to change the subject, but I mean what kind of a mind does it take to accept the likes of GWB as the best man for the job? What a joke and what a dangerous world we live in. He didn't manage to achieve that position (POTUS) all by himself -- He had help. And it's that help that is working in our land that means one hell of a lot more than MCCAIN and/or HBILLARY. Its the corruption behind the scenes we need to be focused upon -- and fix that.
Impeachment and removal of the entire lot will be our only fix. I support doing that as an American citizen who feels we have no other solution. It's either that (impeach and remove the entire corrupt lot) or nothing will change much -- all will be pretty much business as usual (lies, death, destruction, war, manipulated elections, and more lies) IF WE DON'T WAKE FULLY AND TAKE THE APPROPRIATE ACTION NOW BEFORE IT'S FOREVER TOO LATE.
As to Congressman CONYERS -- No way. He is nothing but part of the problem. He changed his mind on impeachment the day the Democrats took the majority control. And control is the key word -- not Democrat and not Republican -- the ones truly in control showed their ugly head again when they promised impeachment 'IF' but then recanted the day they were in position to do something about it. O yes they did do something -- they took it off the table.
They (Congress) had (and still have) a Constitutional Responsibility to investigate and impeach for treason and other high crimes. Don't take favorites in this gangster ridden government and believe that anybody now in position of control is on our side. Congressman WEXLER -- Maybe. But certainly not JOHN CONYERS -- and definitely not NANCY PELOSI // They've already spoken and we know wherein lies their loyalities. It's certainly not to the American People.
They have to play their game of doing their job -- Let's hope CONYERS knows we're continuing to watch him and his other elected fellows. Probably in many cases 'selected' can be substituted for 'elected' as well in Congress too -- probably a more realistic look at reality as it's happening there also.
-- IMPEACHMENT of the entire lot is our nation's only hope.
http://www.impeachbush.org/site/News2/1284355007?page=NewsArticle&id=526...
On the contrary, stopping McCain from POTUS is our main problem
Conyers has made it clear he is afraid of impeachment(on youtubes) because it might hand POTUS to McCain. We have to convince Conyers to impeach AND focus to unite against McCain concurrently, because Conyers may not agree to our fortitude for impeachment otherwise. These are my observations of Conyers focus> please don't shoot the messenger :o)
IMPEACH BUSHCO & RICO PNAC/AIPAC>"OUT" ANTI-AMERICAN CABALS!
WE MUST DEFEAT MCCAIN!!!
YANK -- I Respectfully Disagree With You
Don't misunderstand my concern regarding MCCAIN -- I certainly don't want him as our President. No way I will vote for the jerk. I believe him to be a GWB clone, I believe him to be a traitor during the Vietnam period he was a POW. I don't like the guy.
But him being POTUS (as bad as that would truly be) isn't the main problem. Getting rid of the main problem is the main problem. Right now MCCAIN is only a flunkie candidate. It's the main problem (behind the scenes) that has gotten him that far, that has allowed all those terrible things about him to mean nothing, and the main problem that will continue to operate even with MCCAIN in the driver's seat.
As GWB is not the main problem, he's related to it, no doubt but the main problem is what put him in the driver's seat. Him gone isn't fixing the problem. The real problem is not how you apparently view it.
Impeachment of the main problem means clearing house of those that truly do control behind the scenes. Some of them have allowed themself to be placed in positions of authority (VP Cheney being one such gangster that needs to be impeached and gone) // If we are able to remove the cause of the gushing wound in our political system -- the wound will heal. It has to. But getting all concerned over the scab or the bandaid doesn't fix the wound that lies underneath. Understanding any of this?
You saying that CONYERS is afraid he will upset the apple cart is saying that you truly don't get it. CONYERS and his staff of flunkies had more than enough time to start any impeachment proceeding months BEFORE this election process began. He said he initially would (while in the minority) and then backed abruptly away (the day his party affilitation became the majority). Took it off the damn table when it should have been the main course for dinner.
Impeachment is LONG OVERDUE. CONYERS is an obstacle to that. So are many of the other Congressmen obstacles to that. Since when does our US Constitution worry about upsetting an upcoming election if impeachment is warranted? If the guilty deserve to be busted -- then bust their ass. Don't excuse them for any reason. That's what you're doing.
I agree jbrid.
Justice is non-negociable. Especially when the criminals are pilaging the national treasure and poised to attack yet another innocent nation for the sake of profit margins.
There is NO justification for postponing impeachment proceedings.
jbrid1138 , I respect your respect :o)
but (you knew there was a but coming , right), Conyers is not as much an obstacle to us as he is to himself. He is AFRAID (the man IS human) that starting impeachment proceedings will guarantee a major distraction from the election. He foresees that this will give GOP ample opportunity to sell McCain, and there you have it > THREE SLAMDUNKS:
1) An unsuccessful impeachment (we all know Conyers does not have enough votes right now to impeach , right?)
2) a potential McCain POTUS
3) more war and bloodshed, for a hundred years or more
Now there are TWO scenarios with Conyers' "impeachment will fail AND make McCain POTUS" scenario:
1) he might be right
2) he might be wrong
Why am I even listening to him regarding his fears? He is the NUMBER ONE EXPERT in Congress regarding impeachment and proceedings.
I think Conyers is frozen in this fear of indecision, so he has chosen NOT to decide.
It's unfathomable that Mr. John "Impeachment" Conyers turned into a "bad man" overnite. I don't believe Conyers is the impeachment "bogeyman", I think McCain is.
PS The "impeachment purist" stalemate is NOT working right now.
Our nation was NOT built on stubborn-ness , it was built on compromise.
My solution , which apparently causes so much ire to the "impeachment purists" , is to scratch Conyers' back a little, show him that we WILL UNITE against all odds against McCain in November, to demonstrate a LANDSLIDE against McCain is possible. I believe this will help loosen Conyers up as far as HIS FEARS are concerned, and maybe, just maybe , we can bring him around to our side on the impeachment table.
IMPEACH BUSHCO & RICO PNAC/AIPAC>"OUT" ANTI-AMERICAN CABALS!
WE MUST DEFEAT MCCAIN!!!
YANK -- Am Sending A BUT Back In Your Direction
I don't know why you think anyone would think CONYERS turned bad over night -- not saying that. He's been bad on this subject for quite sometime now. Are you now allowing the fact that he said he would impeach (saying this many months ago) to changing drastically and saying he wouldn't (also many months ago) as a sudden change of heart? // that's not over night by any means.
Of cousre institutional knowledge is a good thing, but it also can be not so good because people get set in their ways while others stand by and watch for direction (leadership) // To think that we have leadership on this utterly important subject from an old man that has trouble forming and speaking his sentences, and it's that same old man that each INDIVIDUAL IN CONGRESS feels they need to first wait for direction in this regard -- is what's so silly in this. Since when does it take one old man to decide when impeachment is appropriate? Impeachment is a process reserved for Congress alone and Congress is not just one silly old man. It's all of them who should be recognizing and accepting their individual responsibilities to sign on for this process -- it's their individual duties to impeach when the situation warrants. And it warrants -- and I can see that and I'm not as close to the flagpole as Congress certainly is. They know more than any of us. And yet even I know impeachment is long overdue.
To try and twist the reasons they should not be doing their job (by not doing their job because it might interfer with an election process as if treason and other high crimes are to take the back seat over anything) when it is only them that can do this job of impeachment is avoidance on a grand scale. Actually it is complicity on a grand scale. ExcusingTREASON is like knowing someone committed murder (and you know who it is) but you do nothing about it, you don't want to get involved because something's coming up on TV you want to watch and you just can't miss seeing it. It's actually much worse -- because it's treason; and treason is a high crime all by itself, it's own separate category of truly bad.
Not accepting this as such is pure bullshit -- an entire wheelbarrow full of the crap; that's what you're trying to justify as something other than what it is. And the hell of it is -- it truly doesn't matter what you say or what I say because it's not up to us is it. It's up to Congress -- all I believe we should ask is for them to do their damn job. They certainly haven't done it yet on many levels or we would never have gone to an unjust war and we certainly would be home now and lives saved. And yes GWB and crowd would be history long ago.
Here, listen to one brave patriotic Congressman and his take on these matters:
https://wexlerforcongress.com/multimedia.asp?ItemID=240
Any excuse in this regard is no good acceptable excuse. Impeachment is warranted -- Long overdue // Remember hearing about those 935 lies not long ago?
Congress stands afraid (no matter what their silly reason they might be saying otherwise) they're afraid of how any true investigation and impeachment process will show the American People clearly their own (Congress) complicity in these crimes. That's why. And apparently CONYERS understands this better than most.
But, The "Impeachment Purist" Stalement IS NOT WORKING
jbrid1138 , We are all aware "gosh , ain't it awful".
What do you propose to break this stalemate? I am aware of Wexler, I am from Florida, he is a fine man working hard and hustling for signatures TO CONVINCE CONYERS. But Wexler is not the Chairman of the Judiciary Committee. Throwing epitaphs and cursing Conyers' is not working. What do you propose, that will work?
I am not privy to the ways to go around Conyers, if there are ways . Please advise.
IMPEACH BUSHCO & RICO PNAC/AIPAC>"OUT" ANTI-AMERICAN CABALS!
WE MUST DEFEAT MCCAIN!!!
Quite Simple Actually -- The House Of Reps Should Do It's Job.
You might be from Florida and have heard of WEXLER but you also seem to be the one trying to justify why 'The House' feels it shouldn't do it's job; and it's you that seems [to me] to be the defender of CONYERS and his statement as to this election crap as reason not to do his job -- I'm not trying to argue something as simple to understand as this certainly is. It's crap and it smells.
-- Impeachment is warranted and long overdue. Period.
Then you are at a stalemate . PERIOD
You are not going to convince Conyers to impeach by insulting him. And I love Wexler, but he is not Chairman of the Judiciary Committee . You claim you want justice? Then you want what KIND of justice? Impeachment ONLY?
I want to see the wars end too!
I am not going to be your whipping dog either.
IMPEACH BUSHCO & RICO PNAC/AIPAC>"OUT" ANTI-AMERICAN CABALS!
WE MUST DEFEAT MCCAIN!!!
I Don't Whip Dogs // Sad To See You Might Think Otherwise
In case you missed seeing this earlier:
http://www.abanet.org/publiced/impeach2.html
Listen forum friend, as I said earlier it's not my place to impeach and it's not your place to impeach -- This is reserved for The House of Representatives to decide.
How'd I insult CONYERS? Calling him an old man who has trouble forming his sentences, perhaps -- if that's an insult, it's also the truth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPkBuQfZfFo
The guy won't even hold hearings to see if they should impeach // and that's knowing all we already know without a hearing. What's insulting is agreeing with this guy's logic.
I'm not here to be whipped and not to stalemate impeachment
Been on this site for 2 1/2 years. I really don't need the insults from newbies anymore.
And insulting people who DO have the power to impeach has already long proven to be un-productive :o(
Next idea...
IMPEACH BUSHCO & RICO PNAC/AIPAC>"OUT" ANTI-AMERICAN CABALS!
WE MUST DEFEAT MCCAIN!!!
YANK -- Knock Off The Newbie Insult
Your 2 and 1/2 years you boldly proclaim -- perhaps you should be a bit more embarrassed over that than thinking it gives you some professor-ship. Thinking CONYERS is right regarding his claim to be concerned over MCCAIN becoming President because the Democrats might be viewed as out for a witch hunt -- is blatant avoidance of responsibility. We all know (political party aside in this country) that GWB and dick(head)Cheney are war criminals and worse.
So finding excuses NOT to impeach makes many of us think maybe certain folks have reason not to do their job.
I'm no newbie by any shape or form // Been looking at this ADS site for 17 weeks now // And most likely old enough to be your Dad -- so knock off the damn insulting remarks directed towards me. Not nice. And you are the one that called yourself a Whipping Dog -- not me.
Here's yet another video to be wasted on your 2 and 1/2 years, I'm sure:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPnCR8uKAx8
KNOCK OFF YOUR "CRAP" INSULTS TO ME, NEWBIE
FUCK OFF BULLY. YOU WANT TO IMPEACH , THEN GET OFF YOUR ASS AND MARCH DOWN TO JOHN CONYERS OFFICE AND TELL HIM TO DO IT.
IMPEACH BUSHCO & RICO PNAC/AIPAC>"OUT" ANTI-AMERICAN CABALS!
WE MUST DEFEAT MCCAIN!!!
Kiss Your Mother/Husband/Kids With That Foul Mouth?
I remember you now -- from earlier exchanges -- you're one sick opinionated puppy. Must be where you got that Whipping Dog idea from. I feel kinda sorry for you and your 2 and 1/2 years -- they seem wasted. That's all I can say to you based upon your angry response to me personally. Other than -- you try and have a nice day, seriously, all those CAPS scream uncontrolled anger.
For your own well-being, you might want to step away from the keyboard a minute or two. Relax take a deep breath.
You offer insults and no solutions
I think its your turn to leave.
IMPEACH BUSHCO & RICO PNAC/AIPAC>"OUT" ANTI-AMERICAN CABALS!
WE MUST DEFEAT MCCAIN!!!
YANK -- No That's Not True What You Just Said
I offered a 'possible' solution // provided a link to it earlier // and that being a petition to sign (has over ONE MILLION NAMES now on the list presently calling for impeachment proceedings). I also provided a look (another link) into the U.S. Constitution as to the rules regarding impeachment. I provided interested others (not including yourself among that further, so don't think otherwise) a look into a couple of related video clips that support the reasoning we ALL might want to sign that petition and stop believing jerks like CONYERS and the excuse he thinks we will believe. Look this isn't a war between you and me (I don't see it that way -- perhaps you do, you took offense quick enough) // I see this as a war against the gangsters that now have control over our government and those complicit insiders they have that allow them to continue to get away with this unsatisfactory behavior.
This is our beloved country and we need to WAKE UP and seriously realize that we exercise little to no control and those that do simply need to do their job. Collectively perhaps we still stand a chance of recovering our nation back again. This is not a MCCAIN thing; this is not a HBILLARY thing -- this is a government controlled by gangsters that need to be thrown out of office so decent candidates will stand a chance. With them there -- there is no chance. As I said earlier -- try and have a nice day.
You already turned me off with your "crap" insult
Clearly , this pickle the United States is in is NOT simple , there is no one solution , there is no magic wand. It is a multi-faceted problem, and it will require multi-faceted ideas and solutions. To close yourself off to ALL the problems is to close yourself to ALL the ideas and solutions. If you call everything anyone else says is 'crap', then the dialogue ends and you join the ranks of the STUBBORN STALEMATERS.
Time to take the blinders off.
You have a nice day too :o)
IMPEACH BUSHCO & RICO PNAC/AIPAC>"OUT" ANTI-AMERICAN CABALS!
WE MUST DEFEAT MCCAIN!!!
Jbrid
And here we thought it was only the right wing extremists that took the "my way or the highway" position.
It's getting hard to tell the neocons from the meocan'ts isn't it.
And Jbrid I'll tell you what I would do if I was going to continue this ongoing battle to firm up my position, and that is to not just pick out Conyers and target him alone, but point to the whole damned cowardly house of congress republicans and democrats alike...AS THEY, EACH AND EVERY ONE, FROM THE SPEAKER, TO THE NEWEST ELECTED, CONSIDERING THE MOUNTAINS OF DISCOVERED EVIDENCE DERIVED FROM OTHER TESTIMONY THEY HAVE AT THEIR DISPOSAL, ARE COMPLETELY DERELICT IN THEIR OATH SWORN DUTIES TO UPHOLD THE CONSTITUTION AND THE LAW AND IMPEACH!
TP
The political party I belong to is the entire body politic of the United States of America and our Constitution that I support without bias which neither states or implies any allegiance with any other socalled organized political party.
Just more insults with no ideas ...yawn, Indy
MCCAIN/LIEBERMAN '08 !
INDY -- Sometimes Words Fail Me
I have no reason to blame CONYERS alone for this mess we find ourself in here in this nation. I'm sure I've mentioned his name numerous times this morning but that was in redress to what I took to be a defense of the man and his posture on impeachment. He truly doesn't stand in the way for he truly is not the deciding factor if impeachment should or should not be applied. He would have many of us believe as much, but he is not the only Congressman in The House and this matter (action) is up to The House // certainly not just him. In one of the clips I provided his anger showed and he quickly let it be known that he has set on a great number of impeachments -- But now how many Presidents that might be I can only laugh at. He thinks he is far more important than he is. Certainly not important to me. And he shouldn't be to the impeachment process either.
No, I think we have BIG TIME MAJOR PROBLEMS here in this land we all love. The MSM has been complicit in more ways than most will ever imagine -- a psyops skill they do very well in diverting us, redirecting us, educating us, and so forth. So far to-date they have all but helped pick the next President of the USA for us. We only know what we're told and most of that comes from a bought and paid for media. Not all, but the main guys -- yep!
I believe we have gangsters that have gotten control over our government. Stemming back many years now. Becoming all the more obvious as a result of the 9/11 happening (it being an inside job) -- but as I said this control by the 'bad guys' dates back many years. I'm sure CLINTON was part of it as I'm sure daddy BUSH was part of it // and it's certainly not limited in thinking to just those few individuals. The Federal Reserve (IRS) contributes to this control as does foreign influence. Things are generally BIG TIME SCREWED UP and all at the expense of the American People.
I mean how else can anyone justify our country going to war (dropping the 'first' bombs on a city as it slept) against a country that did not attack us on 9/11, a country that had neither the will nor the means to cause us harm -- but all that ignored by our government that sends its citizen-soldiers to fight and die for a cause that makes absoslutely no sense. And then sends them back for more repeatedly and truly intends upon keeping them (us) involved for an indefinite period (100 years or more -- WTF?) That's only possible because we have a corrupt hand that 'decides' for us and feels we are of no importance in their agenda. All that stuff about Of The People, For The People is not how it's viewed these days. GWB said our U.S.Constitution is nothing more than a damn piece of paper -- and he meant every word of that. They don't care about us.
And yet some will continue to defend one or two, even throw themself on the gernade if need be for the evil corrupt bastards. They need to be gone and they need to be gone legally -- that just happens to be only possible by means of impeachment and removal from office. The legal court system can't touch them and the only legal means available -- they are steadfast trying to control it as well. This has gotta stop, the sooner the better.
Sorry for the rant. I think we're on the same sheet with all this. I say that based on some of what you've said so far. You have a nice day. Sign that petition. Every name counts and there's truly not much more we as individual citizens can do. And they know that!
http://www.impeachbush.org/site/PageServer?pagename=homepage
Don't worry about it Jbrid...
This has become typical behavior for our resident Yank. Attack, slander, ridicule, change direction, misrepresent, and curse and yell. The "newbie" thing is a new-one. I will give you that.
When argueing an indefensable position with educated and concerned citizens, logic HAS to go out the window. These tactics are all she has. Consider it flattering that you have been able to push her to the caps-lock stage so soon.
And welcome to forum. You should have chimed in 17 weeks ago, but, good to hear from you.
WIlly
There does seem to be one person in this blog that thinks that extremist libersals have exclusive ownership of the blog. NOT!
Do note that I did not say Democrats. There are some very reasonable common sense Democratic party members in this blog.
TP
The political party I belong to is the entire body politic of the United States of America and our Constitution that I support without bias which neither states or implies any allegiance with any other socalled organized political party.
Jbrid
We all, at least all here in this one blog, would like to see somebody...anyfreakingbody....that has the power to do it, go forward with impeaching bush and cheney.
Which makes me wonder if anyone else has considered that Conyers is just as confused, undecided, and awash in an underlying current of a turmoiled political sea as the rest of us out here are? It could be something as simple as that. That much defense I will grant Conyers because second guessing as to what is on someone's mind is impossible.
TP
The political party I belong to is the entire body politic of the United States of America and our Constitution that I support without bias which neither states or implies any allegiance with any other socalled organized political party.
Then Let's All Listen (Read) What The Constitution Has To Say
This is not the U.S. Constitution -- but it gives some additional insight (a quick grab):
http://www.abanet.org/publiced/impeach2.html
Good post Stephie
The political party I belong to is the entire body politic of the United States of America and our Constitution that I support without bias which neither states or implies any allegiance with any other socalled organized political party.
OF COURSE PROGRESSIVES SHOULD UNITE!!!
If we fail to unite, we lose. If we Unite, we win and win big.
The problem is, it matters HOW we unite and in support of WHOM. Clinton and Obama will continue the domestic policies we have seen under Bush.
Period. They are NOT progressives. Unitiing behind them is the same as uniting behind McCain, except the song is a little different.
Can't you people see that it's all a kabuki? McCain plays the scary bogeyman. Obama plays the young hero. No doubt the military/industrial/complex/corporatocracy would prefer McCain, but they'll settle for Obama.
Obama a progressive hero? Obama an historic candidate? Obama a great rhetorician and political thinker? It is to laugh.
Obama is a gift to America from the only political machine as corrupt as the GOP - the Chicago Democratic Machine. He's up to his neck in exploitation of minorities in Illinois and in closed door 'negotiations' with corporate interests. It wasn't long ago when it was standard amongst progressives to decry Obama because he constantly used right wing talking points to attack Democrats.
YES, BY ALL MEANS, LET'S UNITE BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE. But following a Pied Piper, whether it be Bogeyman McCain or Rockstar Obama, into Hell is not my idea of uniting.
eppie
Couldn't have stated it better myself. Congrats!
TP
The political party I belong to is the entire body politic of the United States of America and our Constitution that I support without bias which neither states or implies any allegiance with any other socalled organized political party.
Then you might as well just crown McCain KING NEOCON now
So you are uniting us to NOT unite against McCain? I don't get it. I've heard of death wish, but this sounds like you want us all to drink the Neocon Koolaid . Given the choice, I'd rather drink lemonade.
You all do realize those are the only choices, right? Kool-aid or Lemonade, sorry, no Pina Coladas this year.
For those of you drinking the Green alfalfa smoothie, at the risk of parrotting James, it's not gonna happen.
IMPEACH BUSHCO & RICO PNAC/AIPAC>"OUT" ANTI-AMERICAN CABALS!
WE MUST DEFEAT MCCAIN!!!
Exactly Epppie
"Obama is a gift to America from the only political machine as corrupt as the GOP - the Chicago Democratic Machine. He's up to his neck in exploitation of minorities in Illinois and in closed door 'negotiations' with corporate interests."
That makes sense since his wife is a director for the Chicago Council on Foreign Relations (called Chicago Council on Global Affairs (they changed the name in '06)).
You're damn right on this, Epppie.
Hope This Isn't Looked At As SPAM -- My Second Posting Of This
THIS SEEMS TO FIT HERE BETTER THAN IN THE OTHER THREAD.
Since we're discussing CONYERS thought you folks might find this of some interest --
This from an interview with AMY GOODMAN, Democracy Now:
http://www.democracynow.org/2005/12/21/first_step_towards_impeachment_co...
***extract***
(21 Dec 2005)
AMY GOODMAN: *** COMPARE WHAT YOU SEE TODAY WITH THE CURRENT PRESIDENT in his second term, Congressmember Conyers.
REP. JOHN CONYERS: Well, that was one of the sorriest episodes in the history of American impeachment, because they were referring to personal conduct. That president had not tried to start a war secretly, was not trying to undo conventions against torture, was not misstating or manipulating intelligence or information to justify a war. He wasn’t taking retaliatory measures against critics of his administration, including people who were in the Central Intelligence Agency. So the high-flown statements had no bearing to the facts. As a matter of fact, what we’re doing—
AMY GOODMAN: We have ten seconds.
REP. JOHN CONYERS: WE'RE MOVING with a great caution TOWARD what a number of PEOPLE ARE REALIZING SHOULD BE APPROPRIATELY DONE.
_____________
That's what CONYERS was saying back then, I know because I was all excited about supporting him and even went as far as considering financial support for his cause as a result of an email (form letter style) he sent asking for $$ in this regard. That's what turned me off on the guy (not all that talk back then about his kids and him having his personal staff assistant as his personal babysitter) but the fact that the guy was asking for $$ for a cause that seemed to me to be a U.S. Constitutional matter and him just doing his job as a Congressional Representative of the People. Asking for $$ left me with a dirty-feeling about the guy, even back then. But my point in showing the above interview exchange was it was all double-talk coming from the guy -- and this was YEARS before OBAMA and/or MCCAIN came into view as any Presidential Concern whereby Democrats taking action might be construed as a witch hunt. And YEARS before the First Session of the 110th Congress. Pure double talk, lip service, bullshit and nothing more.
______________
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/110th_United_States_Congress
***extract***
The One Hundred Tenth United States Congress is the current meeting of the legislative branch of the United States federal government, composed of the Senate and the House of Representatives. It is scheduled to meet in Washington, D.C. from January 3, 2007 to January 3, 2009, during the last two years of the second administration of President George W. Bush. The apportionment of seats in the House of Representatives was based on the 2000 United States census.
The Democrats control a majority in both chambers for the first time since the end of the 103rd Congress in 1995.
ugh..... RON PAUL 2008!
ugh.....
RON PAUL 2008!