Biden Wins Debate

By David Swanson

To be read from bottom up.

10:37 My own analysis is that Biden stressed the things I agree with him on more than I'd hoped and more than he talked about the things I oppose. Palin didn't say as much. What she said I disagreed with. She failed to respond to some major criticisms. And she relentlessly lied even after being corrected. I admit that all seems rather trivial when compared with how many times she said "Gosh darned it" and the fact that she avoided claiming Putin walked the earth with dinosaurs.

10:34 David Brooks thinks Palin was "every bit" Biden's equal. "She held her own." Shields: "Republicans are breating a lot easier. Democrats are disappointed that she didn't implode." He admires all of Palin's colloquial "you betcha"s and "daggonit"s. The commentary is more substance free than ever.

10:33 The pundits are drooling now to declare that Palin failed to completely fall on her face.

10:30 Biden says this is most important election in our lives, opposes tax breaks to CEOs and ExxonMobils. Favors a better standard of living for ordinary people. And "may God protect our troops."

10:29 Palin says she likes debates better than the filter of the main stream media, shifting the blame for her flubbed interviews to the most hated institution outside of Congress. She says "freedom," "fight," "McCain."

10:26 Ifill insists on her question about bipartisanship again. Biden says he's learned not to question others' motives. Palin says she appoints people regardless of party. She again claims Obama would raise taxes.

10:24 Ifill asks about a policy issue in which Biden had to change his point of view. He said that it took him five years to realize that the ideology of judicial nominees must be considered in deciding whether to approve them, and so he opposed Bork. (Five years, not bad for a Senator.) Palin says she declined to veto budgets she didn't fully support, but she's never compromised on "the major principle things."

10:23 Biden: McCain has voted for Bush budgets and voted against health care coverage and education, has backed Bush on war. McCain voted against LIHEAP (home energy funding). He's not a "maverick."

10:18 Palin palaver: "freedom," "force for good," "reforming," "a good team." Biden brags about crime bill, Violence Against Women Act, war in Bosnia. Biden says he's an ordinary guy who understands ordinary families' struggles. He seems to almost choke up mentioning one of his children struggling for his life. Palin says "maverick" some more.

10:16 Ifill asks if the Veep is outside the executive branch, and Palin seems to say yes, if she said anything. Biden calls Cheney the most dangerous in American history. Biden says that Article I of the Constitution defines the Veep's role in the executive branch. Sadly, that's actually Article II, because the Constitution put the executive branch second, something any resident of Washington, like Biden, must find very hard to comprehend.

10:14 Biden criticizes McCain on education. Biden says he would lead on working with Congress and advising Obama on everything.

10:13 Palin says she would lead on "energy independence" and children with special needs and wouldn't mind the vice presidency having more power.

10:11 Palin criticizes "pointing fingers backwards" again, all her criticism of Obama's record notwithstanding.

10:07 Ifill asks how Biden would differ from Obama if Obama died, and he does not answer except to promote Obama's policies, good ones, ending the "war" in Iraq, green energy, rejection of preemption and regime change, using cooperation, and bad ones like war in Afghanistan. Most important election since '32 Biden says. Palin also refuses to name any way in which she would differ from McCain, says he's a reformer. "Team of mavericks." Huh? Biden stresses that past 8 years have made everyone in the "middle class" less well off and that there's no major difference between McCain and Bush. "Middle class."

10:05 Biden says that when a country engages in genocide it forfeits its rights, btu he does not mean the United States in Iraq; he means countries the U.S. military might want to occupy. Biden criticizes McCain on "the conduct" of the war. Palin says McCain went to war and "knows what evil is."

10:01 Ifill asks Biden why he supports so many interventions around the world: Bosnia, Iraq, Darfur, etc. He claims it saves lives, making very questionable claims about Bosnia. He claims he gave the president the power to go into Iraq because he wanted to stay out of Iraq unless done with allies. He talks about genocide in the next breath, but not our genocide in Iraq, the one we should go stop in Darfur. Palin criticizes Biden's hypocrisy on Iraq and AGAIN claims Obama "cut off funding for troops."

9:56 Ifill asks Pallin when she would use nukes. Palin talks about "nukyular" weapons but does not answer the question in any way. And she claims McCain has a different policy than Bush on Afghanistan. Biden says that the commanding general in Afghanistan today said a surge won't work there. Biden says McCain voted against the nuclear test ban treaty. Obama worked with Senator Lugar on arms control. Palin denies that general said "the surge principles" can't work in Afghanistan. Biden says yes he did.

9:54 Palin assures everyone she loves Israel and says not to "play the blame game" and that finger-pointing backwards conflicts somehow with providing change. "Maverick." "Maverick." "Change is coming." But Biden asks how McCain's policies will differ in any way from George Bush's.

9:52 Palin favors what Ahmadinejad does: a two-state solution. Biden brags about his support for Israel. He criticizes decision to allow elections on West Bank. He blames Bush for empowering Hamas and Hezbollah and Iran.

9:49 Palin claims dictators hate "our freedoms" and a president shouldn't sit down with them. Biden denies that Obama would sit down with Ahmadinejad, and says he's surprised McCain doesn't know that Ahmadinejad doesn't control the secutiry apparatus in Iran. Biden speaks in favor of talking and negotiating. He points to McCain refusing to meet with the president of Spain, which is silly - McCain clearly didn't know who the president of Spain was.

9:45 Iran and Pakistan: Biden stresses that McCain is focused on Iraq, and a smart war would focus on [slaughtering families in] Afghanistan and Pakistan. Biden proposes constructing schools for people there -- that's a positive new proposal. Palin says that Petraeus and bin Laden are her sources for the idea that the focus should be on Iraq. She says "nukyular" three times in repeating lies about Ahmadinejad's threats to Israel, even though she's misquoting him and he was just in New York expressing openness to a 2-state solution.

9:39 Palin: surge, surge, surge, and the claim about Obama voting against "funding troops" that Obama debunked in the last debate. Palin praises Biden for having criticized Obama for that vote. Biden replies that Palin offered no plan for Iraq. She didn't. Obama's plan, he says, is like Bush-Maliki's. Biden, like Obama, refuses to question that funding wars is for the benefit of troops, instead - like Obama - claiming that McCain too voted to cut funds for troops. Biden stresses that Obama will end the war and McCain will not.

Palin is very slow to respond. (Is she listening to a prompt?) She praises more Biden comments criticizing Obama during the primaries. She repeats the cut off funding for troops nonsense. Biden replies again that McCain voted to "cut off funding for the troops" when the bill had a [nonbinding waivable] timeline. Biden then stresses that McCain supported the war and Obama did not (not mentioning that Biden helped lead the push for the war, and Obama has funded it).

9:36 Biden supports equal rights for same-sex marriage. Palin says NO but claims that nonetheless she is tolerant. She would not block hospital visits, etc., but how would she. Now Biden, who said "same-sex marriage" in his first response now denies he would "redefine" marriage. So, they both supposedly support equal civil rights but not "redefining marriage."

9:35 Palin does not manage to defend McCain on alternative fuels but denounces Biden for having said there was no such thing as clean coal and having called offshore drilling raping. Biden replies only to the former and claims he was misinterpreted, and again points out 20 McCain votes against alternative energy. Palin claims she supports capping carbon emmisions.

9:30 Ifill asks Palin what causes climate change. First useful question straight to Palin. She starts to lose it. She blames -- sort of -- both "man" and "cyclical changes." She says she wants to focus on the solution rather than the cause, as if the one can be done without understanding the other. Biden says it's clearly man-made. He also says that if you don't understand what the cause is, you can't come up with a solution (good), and we only have 3% of the world's oil reserves, but McCain keeps voting against alternative energy sources. He pushes "clean coal". He supports drilling for oil too but points out that it'll take 10 years to get a drop. Ifill questions Biden's claims, but not Palin's "cyclical changes" nonsense.

9:26 Now to Palin on the bankruptcy bill. Ifill clues her in that McCain voted Yes, so Palin says that she would have too, and then she blathers about Wall Street, which was not the question. Biden of course voted for the bankruptcy bill and Obama voted against it. Biden claims nobody has suffered from the bill. Again Biden says Obama saw the subprime crisis coming (as if lots of us weren't screaming about it before Obama ever came on the scene). Palin blathers on about energy independence (which was not the question) and speaks directly to Biden, not for the first time, presumably wanting him to speak directly to her.

9:21 Again to Biden first: what useful things will you cut for the bankers' bailout. Biden says he'll cut increasing foreign aid, but will not cut education, green energy jobs, etc., etc., and won't support corporate tax cuts and loopholes and offshore dodges. Nobody will question that cut to foreign aid. Palin claims Obama has supported tax cuts for oil companies and she is a crusader against oil companies and broke up a monopoly for the people of Alaska. Biden smiles at her when she accuses him of things. Ifill asks Palin what she would cut for the bailout: Nothing. And she insists on oversight and regulation, oblivious to the bill that passed the Senate last night. Biden says that when there were votes just on the oil company tax breaks, Obama voted Yes and McCain No, and McCain has another $4 billion in cuts for them in his plan, and McCain opposes any windfall profits tax.

9:15 Biden says "middle class" twice in first breath on the next question, contrasts McCain's and Obama's tax proposals in terms of fairness: "middle class". McCain wants tax cuts for corporations and super wealthy, but for, yes: "middle class." Palin claims small businesses will pay higher taxes under Obama's plan. Palin says taxes are not patriotic, government getting out of the way is patriotic. -- Ifill doesn't ask Biden to respond, instead asking Palin to reply on health care plans, which was her original question to Biden. Platitudes and more tax cuts. Biden gets to reply and says he's talking fairness, not redistribution of wealth when you stop tax cuts for Exxon Mobil. Biden points out scam that is McCain's health care plan: you get $5,000 off taxes but lose a $12,000 plan from an employer (or 20 million do).

9:09 Ifill threatens to ask her polarization question again throughout the evening. Predatory lending question goes to Palin, and she clearly knows nothing about it, but neither may many viewers. She thinks predatory lending involves telling people they can afford a $300,000 house instead of a $100,000 house, and that the dishonesty lies in that persuasion, nothing about all the lies about rates, fees, penalties, etc. Biden cites Obama and McCain's contrasting records on the subprime crisis, including McCain's constant push for deregulation and "self-regulation," and McCain's recent push for deregulating health care to match the deregulation of banking. "Middle class" for second time. Ifill asks Palin to reply re McCain's record, but she chooses to reply on tax cuts (huh?) and contrasts McCain and Obama's records and says that Obama wanted to increase taxes last year. Biden debunks: it was a procedural vote and McCain voted for it too and has voted for more tax increases than Obama. Biden points out that Palin didn't answer deregulation question. She goes back to taxes instead, claims she herself cut taxes, claims McCain is known for something or other. Ifill cuts her off.

9:07 Ifill's top concern is polarization in Congress. Again she goes first to Biden. He brushes off the BS question and debunks the claim about McCain reformer, citing McCain's recent claims that the economy was strong. Palin claims McCain meant the real economy (the workers) is strong, which sort of gives away the pretense that Wall Street is the economy, but nobody will call her on that - not Biden or Ifill.

9:05 Palin is in the clear. No specific answer expected. She talks abotu people's fears and encourages them, and claims McCain is a "reformer" which is a sick lie on the topic of Wall Street regulation.

9:03 First question to Biden on bailout. Dumb question: is this the best or worst of Washington? Decent answer: these past 8 years have been the worst economic policies we've ever seen. Biden uses that as an excuse for the bailout, then claims Obama insists on oversight, no rewards for CEOs, protection of taxpayers, which is horseshit (see the bill he and Obama and McCain all just voted for). Biden says "middle class" for first of many times, but not "lower class" or poor.

9:02 Gwenn Ifill is saying she'll cover domestic and foreign relations and something else unspecified and that she has chosen the questions all by herself.

9:00 It's not starting yet. They're lowering Palin expectations, demandign that she "form complete paragraphs."

Post your comments in real time below. Be watching for these signs of a candidate wearing a wire. Watch the moderator: Does she ask about the things you care about? Watch the assertions: Does either candidate agree with your positions? Does either candidate lie? When they do, does the moderator or the other candidate point out the lie? Does either candidate strain to insert clever one-liners rehearsed beforehand even if they don't fit the context? And in the end are you more frightened of the terrorists Palin warns of or of the prospects of her becoming president -- or of the nomination of a warmongering bailout supporter as the supposed opposition to Palinism?