Welcome to Vietnam, Mr. President
Welcome to Vietnam, Mr. President
By Ray McGovern
I was wrong. I had been saying that it would be naïve to take too seriously presidential candidate Barack Obama’s rhetoric regarding the need to escalate the war in Afghanistan. I kept thinking to myself that when he got briefed on the history of Afghanistan and the oft proven ability of Afghan “militants” to drive out foreign invaders—from Alexander the Great, to the Persians, the Mongolians, Indians, British, Russians—he would be sure to understand why they call mountainous Afghanistan the “graveyard of empires.”
And surely he would be fully briefed on the stupidity and deceit that left 58,000 U.S. troops—not to mention 2 to 3 million Vietnamese—dead in Vietnam. John Kennedy became president the year Obama was born. One cannot expect toddler-to-teenager Barack to remember much about the war in Vietnam, and it was probably too early for that searing, controversial experience to have found its way into the history texts as he was growing up.
Innocent of History, and Distracted
But he was certainly old enough to absorb the fecklessness and brutality of the U.S. invasion and occupation of Iraq. And his instincts at that time were good enough to see through the administration’s duplicity. And, with him now in the White House, surely some of his advisers would be able to brief him on both Vietnam and Iraq, and prevent him from making similar mistakes—this time in Afghanistan. Or so I thought.
Deflecting an off-the-topic question at his March 24 press conference, Obama said, “I think that the last 64 days has been dominated by me trying to figure out how we’re going to fix the economy...right now the American people are judging me exactly the way I should be judged, and that is, are we taking the steps to improve liquidity in the financial markets, create jobs, get businesses to reopen, keep America safe?”
Okay, it is understandable that President Obama has been totally absorbed with the financial crisis. But surely, unlike predecessors supposedly unable to do two things at the same time, our resourceful new president certainly could find enough time to solicit advice from a wide circle, get a better grip on the huge stakes in Afghanistan, and arrive at sensible decisions. Or so I thought.
It proved to be a bit awkward Friday morning waiting for the president to appear...a half-hour late for his own presentation. Was he for some reason reluctant? Perhaps he had a sense of being railroaded by his advisers. Perhaps he paused on learning that just a few hours earlier a soldier of the Afghan army shot dead two U.S. troops and wounded a third before killing himself, and that Taliban fighters had stormed an Afghan police post and killed ten police earlier that morning. Should he weave that somehow into his speech?
Or maybe it was learning of the Taliban ambush of a police convoy which wounded seven other policemen; or the suicide bomber in the Afghan border area of Pakistan who demolished a mosque packed with hundreds of worshippers attending Friday prayers, killing some 50 and injuring scores more, according to preliminary reports. Or, more simply, perhaps Obama’s instincts told him he was about to do something he will regret. Maybe that’s why he was embarrassingly late in coming to the podium.
Another March of Folly
One look at the national security advisers arrayed behind the president was enough to see wooden-headedness.
In her best-selling book, “The March of Folly: From Troy to Vietnam,” historian Barbara Tuchman described this mindset: “Wooden-headedness assesses a situation in terms of preconceived fixed notions, while ignoring or rejecting any contrary signs...acting according to the wish while not allowing oneself to be deflected by the facts.”
Tuchman pointed to 16th Century Philip II of Spain as a kind of Nobel laureate of wooden-headedness. Comparisons can be invidious, but the thing about Philip was that he drained state revenues by failed adventures overseas, leading to Spain’s decline.
It is wooden-headedness, in my view, that permeates the “comprehensive, new strategy for Afghanistan and Pakistan” that the president announced yesterday. Author Tuchman points succinctly to what flows from wooden-headedness:
“Once a policy has been adopted and implemented, all subsequent activity becomes an effort to justify it...Adjustment is painful. For the ruler it is easier, once he has entered the policy box, to stay inside. For the lesser official it is better not to make waves, not to press evidence that the chief will find painful to accept. Psychologists call the process of screening out discordant information ‘cognitive dissonance,’ an academic disguise for ‘Don’t confuse me with the facts.’”
It seems only right and fitting that Barbara Tuchman’s daughter, Jessica Tuchman Mathews, president of the Carnegie Foundation, has shown herself to be inoculated against “cognitive dissonance.” A January 2009 Carnegie report on Afghanistan concluded, "The only meaningful way to halt the insurgency's momentum is to start withdrawing troops. The presence of foreign troops is the most important element driving the resurgence of the Taliban."
In any case, Obama explained his decision on more robust military intervention in Afghanistan as a result of a “careful policy review” by military commanders and diplomats, the Afghani and Pakistani governments, NATO allies, and international organizations.
No Estimate? No Problem
Know why he did not mention a National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) assessing the likely effects of this slow surge in troops and trainers? Because there is none. Guess why. The reason is the same one accounting for the lack of a completed NIE before the “surge” in troop strength in early 2007.
Apparently, Obama’s advisers did not wish to take the risk that honest analysts—ones who had been around a while, and maybe even knew something of Vietnam and Iraq, as well as Afghanistan—might also be immune to “cognitive dissonance,” and ask hard questions regarding the basis of the new strategy.
Indeed, they might reach the same judgment they did in the April 2006 NIE on global terrorism. The authors of that estimate had few cognitive problems and simply declared their judgment that invasions and occupations (in 2006 the target then was Iraq) do not make us safer but lead instead to an upsurge in terrorism.
The prevailing attitude this time fits the modus operandi of Gen. Petraeus ex Machina, who late last year took the lead by default with the following approach: We know best, and can run our own policy review, thank you very much. Which he did, without requesting the formal NIE that typically precedes and informs key policy decisions. It is highly regrettable that President Obama was deprived of the chance to benefit from a formal estimate. Recent NIEs have been relatively bereft of wooden-headedess. Obama might have made a more sensible decision on how to proceed in Afghanistan.
As one might imagine, NIEs can, and should, play a key role in such circumstances, with a premium on objectivity and courage in speaking truth to power. That is precisely why Director of National Intelligence Dennis Blair appointed Chas Freeman to head the National Intelligence Council, the body that prepares NIEs—and why the Likud Lobby got him ousted.
Estimates on Vietnam
As one of the intelligence analysts watching Vietnam in the sixties and seventies, I worked on several of the NIEs produced before and during the war.
Sensitive ones bore this unclassified title: “Probable Reactions to Various Courses of Action With Respect to North Vietnam.” Typical of the kinds of question the President and his advisers wanted addressed were: Can we seal off the Ho Chi Minh Trail by bombing? If the U.S. were to introduce X thousand additional troops into South Vietnam, will Hanoi quit? Okay, how about XX thousand?
Our answers regularly earned us brickbats from the White House for not being “good team players.” But in those days we labored under a strong ethos dictating that we give it to policymakers straight, without fear or favor. We had career protection for doing that.
Our judgments (the unwelcome ones, anyway) were often pooh-poohed as negativism. Policymakers, of course, were in no way obliged to take them into account, and often didn’t. The point is that they continued to be sought. Not even Lyndon Johnson or Richard Nixon would decide on a significant escalation without seeking our best estimate as to how U.S. adversaries would likely react to this or that escalatory step.
So, hats off, I suppose, to you, Gen. Petraeus and those who helped you elbow the substantive intelligence analysts off to the sidelines.
What might intelligence analysts have said on the key point of training the Afghan army and police? We will never know, but it is a safe bet those analysts who know something about Afghanistan…or about Vietnam would roll their eyes and wish Petraeus luck. As for Iraq, what remains to be seen is against whom the various sectarian factions target their weapons and put their training into practice.
In his Afghanistan policy speech on Friday, Obama mentioned training eleven times. To those of us with some gray in our hair, this was all too reminiscent of the prevailing rhetoric at the start of U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War. In February 1964, with John Kennedy dead and President Lyndon Johnson improvising on Vietnam, then-Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara prepared a major policy speech on defense, leaving out Vietnam, and sent it to the president to review. The Johnson tapes show the president finding fault:
LBJ: “I wonder if you shouldn’t find two minutes to devote to Vietnam.”
McN: “The problem is what to say about it.”
LBJ: “I would say that we have a commitment to Vietnamese freedom … Our purpose is to train the [South Vietnamese] people, and our training’s going good.”
But our training was not going good then. And specialists who know Afghanistan, its various tribes and demographics tell me that training is not likely to go good there either. Ditto for training in Pakistan.
Obama’s alliterative rhetoric aside, it is going to be no easier to “disrupt, dismantle, and defeat” al-Qaeda in Pakistan and Afghanistan with more combat forces and training than it was to defeat the Viet Cong with these same tools in Vietnam.
Obama seemed to be protesting a bit too much: “Going forward, we will not blindly stay the course.” No sir. There will be “metrics to measure progress and hold ourselves accountable!” Yes, sir! And he will enlist wide international support from countries like Iran, Russia, India, and China that, according to President Obama, “should have a stake in the security of the region.” Right.
Long Time Passing
“The road ahead will be long,” said Obama in conclusion. He has that right. The strategy adopted virtually guarantees that. That is why Gen. David McKiernan, the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan publicly contradicted his boss, Defense Secretary Robert Gates, late last year when Gates, protesting the widespread pessimism on Afghanistan, started talking up the prospect of a “surge” of troops in Afghanistan.
McKiernan insisted publicly that no Iraqi-style “surge” of forces would end the conflict in Afghanistan. “The word I don’t use for Afghanistan is ‘surge,” McKiernan stated, adding that what is required is a “sustained commitment” that could last many years and would ultimately require a political, not military, solution.
McKiernan has that right. But his boss Mr. Gates did not seem to get it.
Late last year, as he maneuvered to stay on as defense secretary in the new administration, Gates hotly disputed the notion that things were getting out of control in Afghanistan.
The argument that Gates used to support his professed optimism, however, made us veteran intelligence officers gag — at least those who remember the U.S. in Vietnam in the 1960s, the Soviets in Afghanistan in the 1980s and other failed counterinsurgencies.
“The Taliban holds no land in Afghanistan, and loses every time it comes into contact with coalition forces,” Gates explained.
Our Secretary of Defense seemed to be insisting that U.S. troops have not lost one pitched battle with the Taliban or al-Qaeda. (Engagements like the one on July 13, 2008, in which “insurgents” attacked an outpost in Konar province, killing nine U.S. soldiers and wounding 15 others, apparently do not qualify as “contact.”)
Gates ought to read up on Vietnam, for his words evoke a similarly benighted comment by U.S. Army Col. Harry Summers after that war had been lost.
In 1974, Summers was sent to Hanoi to try to resolve the status of Americans still listed as missing. To his North Vietnamese counterpart, Col. Tu, Summers made the mistake of bragging, “You know, you never beat us on the battlefield.”
Colonel Tu responded, “That may be so, but it is also irrelevant.”
The Military Brass
I don't fault the senior military....Cancel that, I DO fault them. They resemble all too closely the gutless general officers who never looked down at what was really happening in Vietnam. The Joint Chiefs of Staff of the time have been called, not without reason, “a sewer of deceit."
The current crew is in better odor. And one may be tempted to make excuses for them, noting for example that if admirals/generals are the hammer, small wonder that to them everything looks like a nail. No, that does not excuse them.
The ones standing in back of Obama yesterday have smarts enough to have said, NO; IT’S A BAD IDEA, Mr. President. That should not be too much to expect. Gallons of blood are likely to be poured unnecessarily in the mountains and valleys of Afghanistan—probably over the next decade or longer. But not their blood.
General officers seldom rise to the occasion. Exceptions are so few that they immediately spring to mind: French war hero General Philippe LeClerc, for example, was sent to Indochina right after WW-II with orders to report back on how many troops it would take to recapture Indochina. His report: "It would require 500,000 men; and even with 500,000 France could not win."
Equally relevant to Obama’s fateful decision, Gen. Douglas MacArthur told another young president in April 1961: "Anyone wanting to commit American ground forces to the mainland of Asia should have his head examined." When JFK's top military advisers, critical of his reluctance, virtually called him a traitor—for pursuing a negotiated solution to the fighting in Laos, for example—Kennedy would tell them to convince Gen. MacArthur first, and then come back to him. (Alas, there seems to be no comparable Gen. MacArthur today.)
Kennedy recognized Vietnam as a potential quagmire, and was determined not to get sucked in—despite the misguided, ideologically-salted advice given him by Ivy League patricians like McGeorge Bundy. Kennedy's military adviser, Gen. Maxwell Taylor said later that MacArthur's statement made a "hell of an impression on the president."
MacArthur made another comment about the situation President Kennedy had inherited in Indochina. This one struck the young president so much that he dictated it into a memorandum of conversation: Kennedy quoted MacArthur as saying to him, "The chickens are coming home to roost from the Eisenhower years, and you live in the chicken coop."
Well, the chickens are coming home to roost after eight years of Cheney and Bush, but there is no sign that President Obama is listening to anyone capable of fresh thinking on Afghanistan. Obama has apparently decided to stay in the chicken coop. And that can be called, well, chicken.
Obama and Kennedy
Can't say I actually KNEW Jack Kennedy, but it was he who got so many of us down here to Washington to explore what we might do for our country. Kennedy resisted the kind of pressures to which President Obama has now succumbed. (There are even some, like Jim Douglass in his book "JFK and the Unspeakable," who conclude that this is what got President Kennedy killed.)
Mr. Obama, you need to find some advisers who are not still wet behind the ears and who are not brown noses—preferably some who have lived Vietnam and Iraq and have an established record of responsible, fact-based analysis. You would also do well to read Douglass' book, and to page through the "Pentagon Papers," instead of trying to emulate the Lincoln portrayed in "Team of Rivals." I, too, am a big fan of Doris Kearns Goodwin, but Daniel Ellsberg is an author far more relevant and nourishing for this point in time. Read his “Secrets,” and recognize the signs of the times.
There is still time to put the brakes on this disastrous policy. One key lesson of Vietnam is that an army trained and supplied by foreign occupiers can almost always be readily outmatched and out-waited in a guerilla war, no matter how many billions of dollars are pumped in.
Professor Martin van Creveld of the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, the only non-American military historian on the U.S. Army’s list of required reading for officers, has accused former president George W. Bush of “launching the most foolish war since Emperor Augustus in 9 BC sent his legions into Germany and lost them.”
Please do not feel you have to compete with your predecessor for such laurels.
###
Ray McGovern works with Tell the Word, the publishing arm of the ecumenical Church of the Saviour in inner-city Washington. In the Sixties he served as an infantry/intelligence officer and then became a CIA analyst for the next 27 years. He is on the Steering Group of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS).
This article originally appeared on Consortiumnews.com.
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www.VelvetRevolution.us
And this is change?
I can't believe it. I'll admit it; I could not stand to look at Bush on the TV and my habit of ignore these people continues. Plus I do not have the intestinal fortitude to look at bold faced lairs and murderers. I was not that hopeful about Obama and he has not disabused me of my skepticism.
4Peace
Ray, brilliant analysis , as
Ray, brilliant analysis , as usual. Obama will never be what he could have been to us and to the world with this policy. He is heeding very bad advice.
Alas, Barack Obama is sounding like Colin Powell
Mr. Obama, Sir, that shit does not fly. We know Powell knew he was lying. It is time for you sir, to brush your teeth and start talking.
I voted for Obama and would all over again.
EW
"EVERY gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed."--President Dwight D. Eisenhower, April 16, 1953
"I voted for Obama and would all over again."
Let's see how that holds up over time, My Friend.
I DIDN'T vote for Obama and would NOT all over again.
REAL "CHANGE"? http://www.dsausa.org/dsa.html
what's your man/woman doing for the U.S.A. right now
Same as you and I, just talking? I damn sure never would have voted for McCain, McKinney, Nader, and, who was that guy from Texas against Social Security?
I am happy, well fed, almost retired, no debts. Started out with zero and plan to die that way. My third party will be split off from our sleazy democrats. I voted the only viable choice I had and would vote the same way again!
EW
"EVERY gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed."--President Dwight D. Eisenhower, April 16, 1953
e.w.- Did you read what Ray wrote about cognitive dissonance?
Let's say you were actually able to address the president directly with your comment. What incentive is there for Obama to "brush his teeth and start talking" if he knows he can count on you to vote for him all over again regardless of what he does?
Shit cannot be made to stop flying with a simple announcement that it doesn't. It requires a brutally honest assessment of the facts (as is Ray McGovern's specialty), and the commitment to act definitively on them regardless of whose "guy" is in the White House.
We desperately need to stop operating within the totally worthless left vs. right paradigm. This is not about "your guy" or "my guy." It's about OUR country, which the foot soldiers of the new fascism are carrying to hell in a hand basket while we consume ourselves with hopelessly irrelevant partisan arguments.
(and/or ridiculous suggestions - like yank's below - that all we need for society to heal is a woman in the White House.)
###
Talking Truth the Talking Heads Can't Handle:
IRAQ: Deaths Rise, Pretense We Care Fades
Cognitive dissonance is an uncomfortable feeling
caused by holding two contradictory ideas simultaneously.
John Perry, I am in a rush. I am a minister and have a flock and need to salve souls. "brush his teeth and start talking" is a coded message telling Obama that I support him and control a number of votes and attitudes. I will be monitoring his breath and he is on a threshold.
I am a Viet Nam veteran and suffer from a stress disorder. I was taken advantage of and lied to. I got the "Dear John" letter. My man is Dennis Kucinich and I am not crying over spilt milk, I have been dumped on my whole life and now enjoy my status as an "atheist minister".
At 12:00p I will stand at the podium and tell my audience "Church is over, all your Sins are forgiven, Go out and Sin some more!" I will get applause and we will start sinning immediately. We will talk jobs and politics. About next week. We will tell dirty jokes. We have a birthday party each month for our children. We know we are not perfect but next week we will be forgiven and Sin again.
EW
"EVERY gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed."--President Dwight D. Eisenhower, April 16, 1953
What's the threshold?
Another million dead innocent people? Another 5 million refugees? Another several thousand dead American soldiers? Another three or four generations locked into insurmountable national debt before they even exist on this earth?
Another four years of ignoring the fact that the whole mess is based entirely on lies, which will continue unabated, only increasing in size and scope, unless we grow the cojones to put the debilitating partisan crap aside and demand justice?
You said:
"Cognitive dissonance is an uncomfortable feeling caused by holding two contradictory ideas simultaneously.
Exactly. Like the screaming contradiction in your statement that you're monitoring Obama and that he's on a threshold, but that it doesn't really matter what he does because you're going to vote for him anyway.
Wake up. Salve your own soul. And pass it on to your flock.
###
Talking Truth the Talking Heads Can't Handle:
IRAQ: Deaths Rise, Pretense We Care Fades
I am flattered
By John Perry. Exactly. Like the screaming contradiction in your statement that you're monitoring Obama and that he's on a threshold, but that it doesn't really matter what he does because you're going to vote for him anyway.
Wake up. Salve your own soul. And pass it on to your flock.
###
Sir, I am an adherent to deductive reasoning. Now, may I be contradictory in saying --- it does not always work.
I have two real candidates - Obama and McCain. I pick Obama over my dead body ... over and over again. I have additional imaginary candidates (square root of -1) so I do not waste my time pencilling them in, even though I might like them better. My putting Obama on the threshold is a manoeuvre to get a like-able third party candidate in all election modules whether it be city, state, or national. We have to make Republicans non-existant first. And, Mr. Perry, I do appreciate your criticism and I wish I could hold your hand in fellowsip.
I do not desire to have my identity exposed in protection of my family, Also it is a part of Freedom of Speech. If you don't like me -- don't read me.
I would so much love to meet Robin, Yank, and Rain and I am missing a few others on the tip of my tongue oh 4peace for one. I just love the name RainMadeline ... beauty is in the eyes of the beholder
EW
"EVERY gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed."--President Dwight D. Eisenhower, April 16, 1953
Thanks earlywine, but still wondering...
what the threshold is, regarding not just your tolerance for Obama, but also when you will finally recognize that there there is really no difference between these two worthless parties, and that trying to differentiate between them ("make Republicans non-existent first") is a complete waste of time.
The evidence of crimes against our Constitution and international law (documented extensively on this very site) is beyond overwhelming, as you are certainly aware, yet we're still waiting, unbelievably, for any measure of real accountability. Could it be any clearer that we have 535 people on Capitol Hill (with a few notable exceptions) who couldn't care less about honoring the oath of office or the will of the people?
We desperately need to stop playing these useless partisan games. There is far too much at stake. We can't be wasting time arguing over which alternative candidates are "likeable" and/or "viable." We need to throw away the entrenched habits, make honest assessments and start taking the steps to get there. Nobody is saying it's going to be easy, but that's no excuse for not making the effort.
Regarding the presidential elections specifically, I think demanding open debates (every candidate on enough state ballots to qualify for the 270 required electoral votes) would be a good place to start.
Regarding your identity: Understood. My comment regarding anonymity was directed more toward the anonymous cowards who attack without substantiation, making up lie after lie as they go along, then run and hide. These people are not interested in any real change. They're just trying to muddy the waters and keep America confused. Their behavior is reprehensible.
Talking Truth the Talking Heads Can't Handle:
IRAQ: Deaths Rise, Pretense We Care Fades
Perry's childish right/wrong paradigm
Not quite sure why you show up on Peace site at all, you do not want to discuss, all you ever do is declare yourself "right" and everyone else "wrong" - that is the silliest paradigm of all, your childish "I am always right, therefore everyone else is always wrong" paradigm. We are different adults here, and we are going to have different world views from differing experiences . If you think you are always "right" during your lesser time and clearly limited experience on this Earth , then you will one day get a rude awakening.
My experience is that living in a patriarchial society is not conducive to peace... if you ever notice things beyond your tiny frame of reference, most of the peace societies of the world are filled with a majority of women, and most of the armies are filled with men. This is my observation based on the facts as I see it. You can ridicule all you want, this does not make you "right".
And by the way, my observance of your wearing-down-people style of behavior simply validates my point- that "might" always thinks its "right" !
ARREST BUSHCO & RICO PNAC/FARA AIPAC...PNAC is Bush/Cheney's "Helter Skelter" !
Attack me all you want, yank
It just shows your worthless partisan cards.
I've been posting here since the site went up. I've also done over 100 YouTube videos. Every one of these posts has my name on it, and anyone who cares to can go to my site and contact me directly via email. Can you say the same? I am clearly not afraid of discussion.
Over the course of this activity I've had many enlightening exchanges with people who may disagree on some points, but who clearly aren't trying to devolve the discourse into silly, juvenile arguments at the expense of real progress.
I have never once declared myself to be "always right," nor do I think that way. I really don't care what you say about it or whether you believe it. I know it.
And your claim of my "limited experience on this earth" is laughable. First of all, you have no idea what I have experienced. Secondly, if we're going by your own age reference, you're exactly six years older than me. Not exactly a lifetime.
So have at it, yank. Knock yourself out. Trash me all you want. Keep projecting your fear of the ugly truth and your thinly disguised shilling for the status quo. If you think it will make me go away, you are sadly mistaken.
You are living proof of how far we have yet to go.
Talking Truth the Talking Heads Can't Handle:
IRAQ: Deaths Rise, Pretense We Care Fades
I am merely responding to your nonstop bullying tactics Perry
Once again you demonstrate that you think bragging and posting your thoughts 100 times on YouTube is so much more "valuable" than everyone else's thought processes, that you deem "ridiculous" , just because you, John the Perry, says so . Once again , you are erroneous to believe yourself to be "enlightening" , as you and your YouTube site are of no interest to me whatsoever , so no need to to sell it to me as I do not buy into your toxic, hostile attitude under your phoney veneer of "peace & justice". Willyloman tried that ad nauseum with his hard selling, selling , selling of his site on this site, and I didn't buy into his either. I am here at ADS, this is where I am, this is where I choose to be and since the beginning too, and I avoid you like the plague because you are single-minded with your narrow destructive discourse. I am very glad I do not subscribe to your close-minded self-absorbed controlled little world on YouTube, so no need to sell your wily wares to me anymore .
ARREST BUSHCO & RICO PNAC/FARA AIPAC...PNAC is Bush/Cheney's "Helter Skelter" !
Refusal to be silent in the face of unjust war isn't "bullying."
It's part of what I see as fulfilling the responsibility of citizenship.
The point of mentioning the videos and the posting I've done here was not to say "how many," nor to express some sort of self-righteous greater value, as you so blindly charge, but to point out that I have been easily identifiable and accessible the entire time, unlike so many others who post here anonymously (yourself included). It's a credibility thing. Something you clearly don't understand.
When I used the word "enlightening" above, I meant that I was the one who was enlightened. Good job with the transparent partisan twisting.
I said your suggestion that simply putting women in national leadership positions currently occupied by men would solve all society's ills was ridiculous because that's what I thought, it's still what I think, and I will not apologize for it. It's incredibly simplistic and addresses none of the outstanding problems we face. If you can't handle being called out on your ridiculous suggestions, don't make them.
Our tax dollars have been financing the killing of innocent people in Afghanistan and Iraq and the destruction of those two countries for seven and a half years. I have spoken out endlessly against this immoral disaster, while you pretend that things have somehow changed for the better simply because the party you prefer now holds the White House, and I'm the one with the "phoney veneer of peace and justice?"
There you go projecting yourself again.
Talking Truth the Talking Heads Can't Handle:
IRAQ: Deaths Rise, Pretense We Care Fades
I refuse to be silent about your bullying tactics , Perry
You think your bullying tactics will silence people and get people to not say their own ideas based on their own experiences , but you are so very wrong. You have a loooong past history of trying to silence people too, and today's was just a continuation of more of your same old routine. I do not care what you think of my suggestions, and not because you do not read them fully in context, but because your one word cutdowns are not adult discussion by any stretch of the imagination on any forum or blog on any topic or subject. You did not succeed in silencing me in the past, so now you try to pathetically justify your immature childish behavior . I never asked you for an apology , as I learned never to expect one from bullies like you decades ago in the schoolyard. You are the ilk that peace & justice seek to protect WE THE PEOPLE from. I do feel sorry for you though.
ARREST BUSHCO & RICO PNAC/FARA AIPAC...PNAC is Bush/Cheney's "Helter Skelter" !
I've never tried to silence anybody, yank.
I fully respect your right to ramble on incoherently with your completely unsubstantiated garbage. You're just mad because I have no problem calling you out on it.
Some say we shouldn't waste our time engaging transparent trolls like you. I'm thinking there needs to be a whole lot more of it. People like you need to know that as long as you're out there spewing your disingenuous, destructive crap that there will be people like me out here to counter it with the reality that you can't handle.
You're nothing more than a hopeless partisan shill for the unacceptable status quo. Your tax dollars are financing illegal war, the killing of innocent people, the destruction of their country and the destruction of our own, and you're okay with it all simply because your guy is in the White House.
That's just plain disgusting. I am extremely ashamed that there are still so many people like you in this country, putting their gutless politics ahead of truth, peace and justice.
Way to go, yank.
Talking Truth the Talking Heads Can't Handle:
IRAQ: Deaths Rise, Pretense We Care Fades
Perry
Your comments are churlish. Your YouTubes are boorish.
Your discourse is petty. I pity you.
ARREST BUSHCO & RICO PNAC/FARA AIPAC...PNAC is Bush/Cheney's "Helter Skelter" !
Reading your dictionary again? Good job.
I could go on, but I'm sure others are tired of this thread by now. I know I am. I'll let the record here speak for itself.
Talking Truth the Talking Heads Can't Handle:
IRAQ: Deaths Rise, Pretense We Care Fades
Same here, EW :)
I am very , very glad I did not vote for Mccain , or the unviable (just a proxy vote for Mccain). Is Obama perfect, well almost , he is NOT Bush, but no, Obama is not perfect.
In my world as I see it, if you want perfect, vote for a viable woman next time ! Let's sweep out the good-old-boy-network-syndrome altogether and let the gals have at it ;-D. Patriarchial societies are way too warlike, we need to switch to the matriarchal paradigm for a few centuries so that society can heal. :-)
ARREST BUSHCO & RICO PNAC/FARA AIPAC...PNAC is Bush/Cheney's "Helter Skelter" !
o.k.
thanks yank,
EW
"EVERY gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed."--President Dwight D. Eisenhower, April 16, 1953
I get it, EW
You didn't want to cut off your nose to spite your face with your vote, right?
Me neither ;-)
ARREST BUSHCO & RICO PNAC/FARA AIPAC...PNAC is Bush/Cheney's "Helter Skelter" !
A treasure
You didn't want to cut off your nose to spite your face.
And don't you forget it Yank, that's the way I am. I enjoy your admonitions. I was discussing theolgy with some catholics today and thought about your slapping my hand ((I was out of order, unintentionally(in a previous post)) so sometimes your vanity (you Yank) works.
EW
"EVERY gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed."--President Dwight D. Eisenhower, April 16, 1953
Born in '58, I too was "toddler to teen" in Vietnam Era
And I never ever forgot doing my homework by the light of black-and-white TV while watching American soldiers die every night. So, if I were president , would I escalate Afghanistan? American soldier blood has already outnumbered the 9/11 fatalities in both Iraq/Afghanistan (and yes, I know Iraq had nothing to do w/911) , so now we are in a "blood deficit" so to speak, for lack of better terminology. Time to pullout , President Obama. Whatever schemes that are being cooked up in Al Qaeda in the hills of Afghanistan/Pakistan can be handled by Special Forces, as they should've been in the first place. Warring on an entire nation for a few bad apples is a quagmire-to-nowhere. We don't do it to Mexico and Columbia during our "War on Drugs", and we should handle terrorists the same way... keep civilian populations OUT OF IT! And for God's sake, no more illegal regime changes.
ARREST BUSHCO & RICO PNAC/FARA AIPAC...PNAC is Bush/Cheney's "Helter Skelter" !