Nonviolence: Twenty-Five Lessons from the History of a Dangerous Idea
A Force More Powerful: A Century of Nonviolent Conflict
Waging Nonviolent Struggle: 20th Century Practice and 21st Century Potential
A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr.
The 35 Articles of Impeachment and the Case for Prosecuting George W. Bush
The Trial of Donald Rumsfeld
The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder
Cowboy Republic: Six Ways the Bush Gang Has Defied the Law
United States v. George W. Bush et al.
The Genius of Impeachment: The Founders' Cure for Royalism
Articles of Impeachment Against George W. Bush
The Impeachment of George W. Bush: A Practical Guide for Concerned Citizens
The Case for Impeachment
Impeach the President: The Case Against Bush and Cheney
George W. Bush versus the U.S. Constitution: The Downing Street Memos and Deception, Manipulation, Torture, Retribution, and Cover-ups in the Iraq War and Illegal Domestic Spying
Verdict and Findings of Fact
Impeach Bush: A Funny Li'l Graphical Novel About the Worstest Pres'dent in the History of Forevar
Pretensions to Empire: Notes on the Criminal Folly of the Bush Administration
The Twilight of Democracy: The Bush Plan for America
Rep. Obey I Accept Your Apology - Now TALK With Us About Ending "This Stupid War"
Today, Obey apologized to Richards via The Hill:
When The Hill contacted him Friday about the videotaped encounter, Obey immediately apologized for getting angry with the woman, saying that his immense frustration about "this stupid war" boiled over.Of course this is Tina Richards' call, but I would accept Obey's apology because Obey's heart is in the right place and his frustration over "this stupid war" is profoundly felt by all of us.
But I want something in exchange for accepting Obey's apology: I want Rep. Obey to join in a calm and respectful dialogue that will allow us to find common ground to end "this stupid war."
Obey's most important point is that the Supplemental includes language that will end the war.
"The language we have in the resolution ends the authority for the war," he added. "It makes it illegal to proceed with the war. You don't have to de-fund something if the war doesn't exist."Presumably, Obey is referring to language that
states that the Iraqi government must meet Bush's benchmarks for reform in order for our troops to remain in the region. The legislation sets a deadline for complete withdrawal from Iraq by Sept. 8, 2008, but also states that troops would be withdrawn earlier if Iraqi government fails to satisfy Bush's benchmarks.The question we have for Rep. Obey is simple: how can that strategy possibly work when Bush will veto the Supplemental or (illegally) nullify that part of it with a signing statement?
If Rep. Obey agrees that his strategy cannot work for that reason, doesn't that leave us with only one strategy, the one embraced by the Progressive Caucus: to restrict the Supplemental to a fully funded withdrawal?
If we were having a calm and respectful conversation, Rep. Obey would find a nicer way to say this:
"We don't have the votes to pass [a resolution]," he yelled. "We couldn't even get the votes to pass a non-binding resolution one week ago. How the hell do you think we're going to get the votes to cut off the war?"And we would reply: please tell us which Democrats we need to persuade to vote for a fully funded withdrawal. Because a solid majority of Americans want to bring our troops home now, and those Democrats work for their constituents.
Rep. Obey, we are not "idiot liberals." We are the American people, and we want to help you end the war as quickly as possible - if you will only talk to us and work with us as we lobby your colleagues for a fully funded withdrawal.
Rep. Obey, will you join us in this dialogue?
www.VelvetRevolution.us
. . .
It's funny to watch you people eat your own.
You are sick, you need help.
You think despairing Moms and frustrated legislators about suicidal soldiers is "funny"?!
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rep. obey got it right the
rep. obey got it right the first time, why appologize to morons who don't have their facts and don't care that they don't know what the hell they are talking about.
Don't care? Who REALLY doesn't care?
You don't think she cares about her son? Are you (!@#$%^&*+) crazy !
Tell us truthfully, and be honest now. Do YOU care about Tina's son, a soldier with suicidal tendencies due to war trauma?
IMPEACH BUSHCO & RICO PNAC/AIPAC > "OUT" THE ANTI-AMERICAN CABALS !
http://tinyurl.com/22bw6j
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sorry, but i'm with rep. obey on this one...
some liberals are definitely idiots!
please read the comments to the diary below this one - but to add to yours, you state
congressman obey WAS respectful to those two idiots - much more than i would have been for much longer than i would have been - but then, i am not a member of congress and i don't have to suffer fools as a part of my job.
obey gave a great deal of his time - after being ambushed in the hall (complete with hidden camera and hidden agenda) to talk to richards - even when he repeatedly explained to her why the war could not be defunded - over and over and over - and finally when he realized he wa talking to people with an agenda instead of people who really wanted answers, he became frustrated.
if you watch the entire tape, he begins to lose patience when the man offers the suggestion that the house "filibuster" - a comment that showed the extreme ignorance of this person on how the house works - the SENATE has the filibuster - there is no such option in the house.
then, the man started quoting the church amendment (viet nam) to obey - who, in utter astonishment, informed the man that he, obey, was teh SPONSOR of that amendment and then corrected the man's many mistatements regarding that amendment. he told them both as they continued to insist that he push for defunding that there were not the votes to pass such an act even if it COULD work, that it could NOT work (and why) and finally, said in frustration, "i don't have a magic wand in my pocket!" and told them if the idiotic liberals would work together, the congress might have a chance to pass legislation that could stop the war! he informed them that his legislation would make the war illegal, making "defunding" moot! he said this several times as the two kept pushing the same robotic talking points (all the while, posing for the camera that THEY knew was recording!)
i am and was and will continue to be appalled at such arrogant and stupid behavior on the part of these three (i am including the "hidden cameraman) at an attempt to blindside a member of congress who is actively engaged in bringing this war to a halt.
he does not owe US anything - but WE owe HIM an apology for allowing the media to selectively pull from that clip and discredit and damage his efforts to end this war! (i have already called his office and profusely apologized on behalf of the NON-idiot liberals).
we don't need to worry about the republicans beating our candidates if we keep this up - we will do that all by ourselves - with a little "help" from our so-called "friends".
i am sorry for the worry ms. richards holds regarding to her son, but her behavior is not helping him - it is actually putting him in grave danger if, by her behavior, she has undercut this congressman's attempts to stop this war by year's end.
sometimes i truly believe people are so blinded by their own opinions that they forget that they need to know the facts before they act.
unfortunately, as the old saying goes, "a little learning is a dangerous thing" - an adage which ms. richards and her friends have so sadly proved once again!
Obey's a butt!
Obey is pig! The War was voted on and the President has the authority to prosecute it. You idiot libs think that you have the ability to micromanage and you can't even handle your own lives, yet you want to control everyone else's lives. Obey sucks!
tina and the congressman
more found here:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4427358201227890862
obey
If I had my way none of you communist pukes would step a foot in Washington, D.C. You do not deserve to have a say about what goes on in the U.S.A. Most of you where draft dodgers and the rest are foreigners. Obey was right on this episode
You must be a fascist pig > what do you love?
We are not communist pukes. We are patriotic Americans! We love America, hate lies & illegal wars, and love our American soldiers.
IMPEACH BUSHCO & RICO PNAC/AIPAC > "OUT" THE ANTI-AMERICAN CABALS !
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Those who released this video owe Obey the apology
The uneducated and bloviating raging net fools who set up one of the best lefty members of congress ever owe the apology. We are all against the war, oppose the President....some do it effictively, some just do it loud...There are soo many idiots on the web telling the congress what to do - who dont have ANY idea of how the congress works. They are hurting our interests. They are giving ammunition to the rebuslicans. They are surely idiots. If you agree with them , sorry, youre an idiot too!
Ahhh, the "Congress is soooo complex" talking points ;-)
It's like this ... we want to stop funding the war. We need the votes. We need to lobby to get the votes to stop the funds to stop the war. ... And that's the house that Jack built ;-)
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Have to side with Obey, too
It's a shame that these two people were so ignorant #1 of the legislative process and #2 didn't take the time to read the fucking bill to find out what's actually in it and what its aim truly is.
True, Obey had no excuse going off on these two people but, speaking as someone who also doesn't suffer fools gladly, I would've had a hard time keeping my cool with these two, also.
jurassicpork
What have you done to end
What have you done to end this war....your criticism of this affair is a no starter.
Obey is the word
Sorry guys. A Congressman is an employee of the people, paid for by the people. He has no right to throw tantrums when questioned. it is his job to ensure that we understand exactly what he is doing and why, whether he enjoys being questioned or not.
I'm not sure where the concept came from that these people are somehow above the law, above being questioned, above review. They obviously think so. They're living off the public dole! From the newest member of Congress to the President--they are all civil servants, paid for by your taxes and mine to serve us. Just like the guy at the DMV. So--Congressman Obey--sorry you're frustrated but you're getting a pretty good salary to do what you're doing, so please remember who your employers are and answer questions when asked.
Reply to Obey is the word
Anonymous just stated…“A Congressman is an employee of the people, paid for by the people. He has no right to throw tantrums when questioned…so please remember who your employers are and answer questions when asked.” Anonymous, you are an idiot. I’d prefer to have a congressman in place that is passionate and takes time out of his very busy schedule to repeat over and over and over his point to a couple of retards, rather than have a sweet talking spin doctor to feed us a bunch of bullshit. Now I feel like I am in Obey’s shoes…wasting my time to respond to someone with a low IQ.
Apology Rejected, "Edrie"
See my reply to your more recent poison attack.
Oh, and your incredibly presumptuous apology to Obey "on our behalf" is likewise disowned.
"IMPEACH the OBFUSCATORS!"
-Matty
End the War
If the USA walks away from the fight, will the Radical Islamic zealots walk away to or will they then bring the fight to the USA? Does it make sense to fight the war on their soil or ours?
Think people, THINK!
Military Enlistment Rates are Down
So, how long ago did you enlist?
I am sure you have encouraged your children and the rest of your family to enlist also right?
SORRY!!!
That fear mongered point is old hat...
"Fight-'em there so as to not fight-'em here..."
Can you prove that they'll be here at our door step any time soon?
Who's gonna pony up the tickets to fly them here?
Oh... I know... I'd rather wait to find out IF they show up... RIGHT?
But can you prove that our involvement in the Middle East is having the cooling effect that you seem to think it is. 600% rise in militant extremism since our involvement doesn't look like things are cooling off. In fact, all indications are that the longer we stay, the militant extremists become more eager to fight us here. Isn't this why the Guvment needs to spy on us all, track our communications so closely? Because they might be here already?
Think about it... the insistence of bruit force actually creates more bruit force resistance. Now how is that stopping anything? It seems to only excite what we don't want to have happen here. So if you care about homeland security, you might want to look at the actions OF the homeland that fuel the activity that you seek to stamp out. Unless you're motives are one of creating fires so as to employ people to put out fires. NO? In which case makes the fire starters, criminals.
truth is a very funny thing...
in your diary you provided the link to tina richards - where this little tidbit resides:
now i understand her agenda for making that little ambush video - it was a fundraiser for her.
do you feel used yet?
maybe not so much of an idiot afterall? but anyone who sends her money will definitely fall into that category!
give me a BREAK!
She's "hedging her bets" for her son
IMPEACH BUSHCO & RICO PNAC/AIPAC > "OUT" THE ANTI-AMERICAN CABALS !
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I dunno,
Initially I could sympathize with Obey's position in this extraodinary video. He seemed just a little overwhelmed with passion. And maybe forget he wasn't on the floor but in the hall with regular folks.
BTW, some folks seem to think this was an ambush. But this is how it works inside those halls, video or not. Lobbying, in a grassroots way, is an ambush. Whether in Washington or your state capitol. I've done it before for my union here in Michigan. You wait, watch and pounce.
In a polite way, but still always an ambush because these folks are always in a hurry. Effective? Maybe. Maybe not but it still holds reps feet to the fire which way they vote.
Obey? Doth thinks he protesteth to much. The bill does not "end" the war. It sets a date for withdrawal in late 2008. I've heard nothing in the bill that revokes AUMF until that time so that original resolution is still in play as the president sees fit in his "War on Terror", Iran included.
Plus Obey mentions "hospitals" and the support of returning personnel as the reason for going above and beyond the pentagons requests. What he doesn't mention is the pork:
Meanwhile, House Appropriations Committee Chairman David Obey, D-Wis., isn't waiting on the upcoming farm bill to extend income subsidies aimed at small dairy farms. Obey's 13-month extension would cost $283 million. - Democrats Link Pet Causes to Troop Plan
True most of the provisions attached are sorely needed domestic relief for years of Republican sanctions against domestic spending but still this bill has an agenda beyond the War that serves Obey's expediant reasonings. That's politics and who are we to argue with the way things are done.
But I can't help but think that Obey's comment to "idiotic liberals" wasn't aimed at Rep. Murtha's proposal to starve the war efforts directly without riding coatails of anti-war sentiment to push through other spending projects.
Murtha, anything but a "liberal", is anything but a typical democrat.
truth is a very funny thing...
I know Tina Richards. She is a member of Militay Families Speak Out. I also know her son Cloy, a US Marine who participated in the initial invasion into Iraq and was redployed for his second tour in 2004 to Fallujha. He completed his four year enlistment adn in January he go notified he is being recalled from the Individual Ready Reserves for a 3rd deployment. All this and he suffers from PTSD. She is not scamming anyone. She is simply asking for donations to help her with food,housing and transportation while she meets with our senators and representatives. If you doubt her sincerity, call Rep Woolsey's or Rep Water's office and ask them who she is. They are working with her. She is simply fighing for her son's life.
Thank you for personal reference re:Tina > you're a good friend!
Initially I was torn when I saw this video, I felt so sorry for both Tina and Congressman Obey at the same time! But I realize as much heartfelt passion I could feel from Obey (even through the YouTube), he does have one advantage that Tina does not. He goes home at nite knowing no-one of his family is suffering from Iraq War trauma.
What a loving Mom Tina is, and what a loyal friend are you! :o)
IMPEACH BUSHCO & RICO PNAC/AIPAC > "OUT" THE ANTI-AMERICAN CABALS !
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I dunno,
Initially I could sympathize with Obey's position in this extraodinary video. He seemed just a little overwhelmed with passion. And maybe forget he wasn't on the floor but in the hall with regular folks.
BTW, some folks seem to think this was an ambush. But this is how it works inside those halls, video or not. Lobbying, in a grassroots way, is an ambush. Whether in Washington or your state capitol. I've done it before for my union here in Michigan. You wait, watch and pounce.
In a polite way, but still always an ambush because these folks are always in a hurry. Effective? Maybe. Legitimate, absolutely. That's their job and it's always best to remind them of that.
Obey? Doth thinks he protesteth too much. The bill does not "end" the war. It sets a date for withdrawal in late 2008. I've heard nothing in the bill that revokes AUMF until that time so that original resolution is still in play as the president sees fit in his "War on Terror", Iran included.
Plus Obey mentions "hospitals" and the support of returning personnel as the reason for going above and beyond the pentagons requests. What he doesn't mention is the pork:
Meanwhile, House Appropriations Committee Chairman David Obey, D-Wis., isn't waiting on the upcoming farm bill to extend income subsidies aimed at small dairy farms. Obey's 13-month extension would cost $283 million. - Democrats Link Pet Causes to Troop Plan
True most of the provisions attached are sorely needed domestic relief for years of Republican sanctions against domestic spending but still this bill has an agenda beyond the War that serves Obey's expediant reasonings. That's politics and who are we to argue with the way things are done.
But I can't help but think that Obey's comment to "idiotic liberals" wasn't aimed at Rep. Murtha's proposal to starve the war efforts directly without riding coatails of anti-war sentiment to push through other spending projects.
Murtha, anything but a "liberal", is anything but a typical democrat.
I'm glad Obey's with us in theory, but we didn't give back control of the House to the Democrats so that they could revert back into being "Democrats". The "Liberal" epithet is more closely associated with Obey's brand of politics than someone like Murtha who goes beyond and to the heart of what needs to be done NOW.
Watch this bill get lambasted by the media because Dems like Obey get too clever for their own, and our good.
edsdet , your polite ambush Lobbying insight is useful ;-)
and intriguing! I hope you bring us some more tips on lobbying the troops home to healthy havens!
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Obey is an Asshole
Maybe she might forgive him, but I don't. Obey just expressed all the hatred he and the rest of our "representatives" have for the average citizen--question me, how dare you? I'll wave my hands around and call you an idiot and tell you how you don't understand something, and then say that I'm working hard by sitting with my thumb up my ass all day holding "hearings" about what we might/maybe/probably/but-maybe-not do for the veterans and to stop this war.
a failure to understand OBEY'S BILL is his own fault. It is not just his job to pass laws, he also needs to justify and explain it to the American people. It's HIS damn bill, so it is his job, not the "idiot liberals," to tell us why we need it.
He is basically calling someone else an idiot for not doing HIS job right.
He's no better than the rest of the politician whores in Washington.
KISS Assholes ! Definition:Keep It Simple Stupid Politicians
It's just toooo complicated!;-) It's just too hard for us peons to comprehend war, why we fight wars, and why we need a warchest for wars to keep the war machine going for the war industries to thrive off endless wars!
It's all just soooo complex !
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lol
Why is her son getting ready to deploy for a third tour - yet he has an honorable discharge?
Clearly she lied.
I love the left. You people need to get even louder.
Let America hear you. :D
You nutroots are awesome!
What is so funny about Stop-Loss? You are a sickie :o(
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop-loss_policy
Explaining Individual Ready Reserves
I posted previously stating that I kinow Tina & Cloy Richards personally.
You obviously do not understand how the military and defense dept. is run.
Cloy was honorably discharged after he completed his 4 year enlistment. When a person is discharged they then go on what is called "Individual Ready Reserves" which is a group of former military members who are held in RESERVE for a specified period of time with the knowledge that, if needed they may be RECALLED. So, despite having serving 2 tours in Iraq and suffering from PTSD, he is being recalled and will be redeployed for his 3RD tour in Iraq.
Why do you supposed our GOVT. needs to recall soldiers after they honorably served their nation...after they went into and survived combat, not once, but twice? Why, because enlistment is down, too many of our current military have been killed or injured and the military does not have the number of "BOOTS ON THE GROUND" that they need to continue this war. I am not going to even get into why people aren't joining the military.
I am the daughter, wife and mom of career military. My husband's just retired with 30 years of combined service in the U. S. Marine Corps and National Guard. Ny husband'S National Guard unit served in Bosnia in 2002; they just got back from Ramada, Iraq in June 2006; and word has it their "flag has been pulled" for a tour in Mogadishu in the near future. Did I mention that this is a National Guard unit?
To anonymous and the others who refuse to engage in an informed, respectful discussion, I would ask you a few questions:
**** How long have you served in the military?
**** How many tours have you served in Iraq or Afghanistan or Vietnam or Korea?
**** How many loved ones do you have who are sacrificing for this “War on Terror?”
FYI: You can enlist up to the age of 42 and if you have prior service I believe you can reenlist up to the age of 60 or so, put you money where your mouth is.
Marine Mom
As a former Marine I must say this woman is an idiot.
A former Marine Mom?
You don't sound like a MOM, let alone a former Marine Mom !
Where is your compassion, lady?
Did you misplace your heart altogether?
IMPEACH BUSHCO & RICO PNAC/AIPAC > "OUT" THE ANTI-AMERICAN CABALS !
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Obey eaten
Why is it that liberals are never heard saying, "how do we win the war"?
You want to "win" an illegal war? Why? What is your "goal"?
Enlist if you mean that , and go "win" the war! Otherwise, Couch Potato , drink your beer and watch team sports on TV .
IMPEACH BUSHCO & RICO PNAC/AIPAC > "OUT" THE ANTI-AMERICAN CABALS !
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Could it be
because the reality is, this is NO WAR that we can WIN, it started off as an invasion, progressed to regime change and is now an occupation with our troops caught in the middle of a civil war??? Perhaps if you hate spewing Reich wing nut ass wipes would pay more attention to the criminal acts, Treasury looting and war profiteering that Bu$hCo is really perpetrating on this country and less time attacking real American Patriots that want an end to this insanity and unnecessary death and destruction we would all be better off!!!
Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official...
~Theodore Roosevelt~
Make THIS make sense
I understand THAT you lefties think it's better we sit around and do nothing - ala Clinton - while our enemies plot and plan and implement 9/11-style attacks against us, but I don't know WHY you think that's the better approach. You all say, (if not exactly), "if we're attacked again, we'll gain the sympathy of the world," and "they haven't attacked us YET, so why are we bothering with them?"
Isn't it better these evil scumbags, (with all apologies to bags filled with scum), die in the streets of Faluja rather than blowing themselves up on buses in Fargo? The islamonazis understand where the war front is -- why don't you guys get it?
Winning the War
You mean the war of Liberating the Iraqis from a dictator...DONE.
or
the mission of locating the WMDs...there were none...DONE.
or
the real war of securing 30 year contracts from the Iraqis for their oil to further enrich the American Oil Industry....DONE.
It is time for our military to come home.
But if you insist on maintaining a strong military presence in Iraq, then you are going to have to accept the reality that the US does not have enough Americans enlisting in our "VOLUNTARY" military to keep up with the current demands. So to continue on our present course, our GOVT. is going to have to REINSTATE THE DRAFT to get the numbers they will need.
Will you support that? How many Americans who support the "WAR ON TERROR" do you think are so committed that they are willing to sacrifice their loved ones for this "NOBLE EFFORT?"
If I must be willing to sacrifice my husband and 3 of my children, why shouldn't every American have to do the same? You either support this war, in which case you should be willing send yourself or those you love or don"t. Which is it?
"WIN" the "WAR"???
It's NOT a declared "WAR" so can we use the correct 'lingo'? Occupation!
Iraq posed no threat to the USA. There were no WMD's, no ties to al-CIAda, no Yellow Cake Uranium from Niger. If it is any sort of war, it is a war of aggression. I'm not so sure that is the type of war one wishes to "WIN".
The Nuremberg Principle was established over 60 years ago. The USA is a charter signatory to it. Pre-emptive warfare was determined, then, to be the supreme war crime. And you want to "WIN" it?
America is committing war crimes each day with this 'war OF terrorism' that many people seem to think we NEED to "WIN". Where is the pride of principles? Of being an American? Have we lost that so as to "WIN" this war?
Obey is Right
I agree with Obey. You liberals are so screwed up that you can't even recognize when someone is on your side. I'm glad your impeding his efforts. Keep up the good work.
"We don't have the votes"
No one has mentioned this glaring outrage: As Obey stated several times: "We don't have the votes". Remember that there's a "Democratic" majority in the House.
The problem is that the "Democrats" in the House are allowing this illegal occupation to continue, just like they're allowing a lot of unjust and illegal things to continue. They're not on our side. They've been letting us down for decades. They're corrupt. Fire them.
Vote Green!
Sorry to Say
it's "NOT VOTES" that they don't have, it's "BALLS", "COURAGE", "BACKBONE", or whatever word you want to use, to stand up to their puppet masters. Both parties have their own reasons to maintain the status quo, because they all share the same corporate interests as well as AIPAC and the Israelis to placate.
Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official...
~Theodore Roosevelt~
The US Cannot win the quagmire
Wake up, please. What Obey and Pelosi are pushing will not end the war. These are certain benchmarks which Bush can easily ignore. Also, Bush has used more than 1,000 signing statements over the last few years to ignore and even break portions of laws passed by Congress.
Obey did apologize to Tina Richards. He knows he was wrong, but I doubt he will change his behavior in the future. He is extremely arrogant and doesn't like to be questioned by The People.